Deleting BKs, A Flaw

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Crdt Dfnse, Jul 10, 2001.

  1. Crdt Dfnse

    Crdt Dfnse Well-Known Member

    Hereâ??s a tidbit from the inner workings of the lending bizâ?¦

    I spoke with a colleague at a lending (trade) organization this morning, and discovered some interesting news. Seems that all those folks who claim to have had bankruptcy information deleted, now have another worry that canâ??t be manipulated. Several large mortgage and credit issuers have developed a tactic to thwart shielded BK info. Itâ??s simple, really, and works like thisâ?¦

    When a new loan is originated a Pacer search is run to establish BK status and application accuracy. This poses two particular problems for anyone shielding a BK; i) Pacer cannot be manipulated and ii) what to put on credit applications regarding BK filings. Correspondingly, if one indicates on a credit application that theyâ??ve not filed BK and its discovered they have? That can be construed as credit fraud, a criminal offense.

    Personally, I find it doubtful (at present) that many lenders will press for criminal charges in the latter case. But this industry attitude may change as lenders continue to lose an extraordinary sum each year, specifically due to reliance upon false credit information. Time will tell, yet for those whoâ??ve successfully had a BK deleted from credit report(s) beware before stating (on applications) that youâ??ve not filed. You may find the result an unpleasant experience.
  2. NiceGuy

    NiceGuy Well-Known Member

    I think that using such a tactic would be considered illegal if sufficient time has passed for the item to become obsolete.

    If the BK no longer exists in the CRA's files becuase the 7(for Ch13) or 10 years has elapsed, wouldn't using that info against you would be illegal under FCRA statutes?
  3. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    Interesting and relevant info indeed. If I get your post correctlly you are talking about a seperate database of some sort for bankruptcies. This database is kept solely by the creditors or mortgage companies?That would definatley be a downer for those who are trying to repair their credit. I wonder what regulation there are for these databases that you are referring to and how do we find out this information that lendors are using in their decision process.By law this info must be divulged to the consumer if used in a decision. Also, it is in my opinion that most people who go through the process of credit repair are more likely to keep themselves credit worthy and make their payments. Is there some data that suggests that those who have repaired their credit are actually defaulting at a higher rate than those who had good credit originally? I doubt that any such data exists, due to the fact that this information would not have been disclosed in the beginning, therefore there would be no such information to draw any statistical info from, unless upon default the debtor comes clean. THat would be a slim percentage..
  4. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    I agree with you on this one. If this info is used in the credit granting decision process, it is just as regulated as any other information. The truth in lending act, FCRA and other consumer protection laws would apply. THe same FCRA rules would apply to any company who gathers information for creditors for the pupose of providing some type of consumer reports..

    GEORGE Well-Known Member



  6. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

  7. c5kirk

    c5kirk Well-Known Member


    Actually, wouldn't it depend on the reason for the inquiry? I know that if someone is pulling your report in order to qualify you for a job where you're making over $70,000/year then the BK can be listed even if it is past the 10 year date. I think that there are 1 or 2 other situations where the 10 year rule doessn't apply. I've always wondered how all of this works. Is there a separate copy of your CR that the CRA's give out in response to these "special" situations or maybe this other database is what they're looking at. I'd love to find out more details on where all of this information about us is stored, how long it is stored, exactly who can get it and under what circumstances they can get it.

  8. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    With the PACER database, anyone can access the info anytime. I can go put someone's full name and city and state of residence, and if their state has decided to put their database online, it will list them if they have filed bk ever. No permissible purpose is required, because bk is a public record.

    If someone wants to access that database and deny you a job solely for that reason, but they actually give you another reason, no one would ever know, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

    I don't think it is right, but I don't see anything anyone can do about it.

    Virginia's database is online for all the world to see. :(

  9. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    I guess this is the way out for those lendors. I have to agree , pretty sneaky...Since this is public infomation I dont know. Is Pacer a private organization? Interesting...
  10. c5kirk

    c5kirk Well-Known Member

  11. Kittw1

    Kittw1 Well-Known Member

    Also a tool used, as I used to do skip tracing (LOL), is Lexis Nexis. You can call them yourself for a free trial. Theuy have it all. BK, how much you paid for your home, what was the last address you used in a request for credit. I had to locate a NBA player that had debt out the see we are not all bad for not handling our debts properly. Check out Follow me call as a business ask for a temp password...and look at what your creditors can find out about you!!!
  12. Crdt Dfnse

    Crdt Dfnse Well-Known Member

    The information I posted is intended for those who, for whatever reasons, are able to have a current BK deleted from CBR(s). If the legitimate time period for reporting the BK has already passed, then a Pacer search would confirm the time expiration. The information would not apply to any credit granting decision, because it would be considered irrelevant in current terms.

    Not correct. Pacer is a database pertaining to public information rather than a credit-reporting agent. TILA, RESPA and FCRA have nothing to do with â??verificationâ? of a potential borrowerâ??s statements regarding a loan applied for. A lender is under no obligation, whatsoever, to disclose this type of verification process. IF one hasnâ??t filed BK, theyâ??ll have nothing to worry about. If they have and seek to conceal the fact by manipulation of the system, such lies are not difficult to uncoverâ?¦ This, at long last, is my overall point.

    Sneaky? No more so than a consumer declaring a BK-7, wiping out all debts, then aiming to conceal the fact by successfully disputing accurate CBR information. Which begs the question; whom is more â??sneaky,â? the consumer aiming to manipulate the system; or lender seeking to protect itâ??s interests?
  13. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Anthony: Two points.

    Anthony and all:

    Two points I have always advocated that one should never file bankruptcy This should chill out anybody reading this thread and contemplating bK.

    Next point.

    Which is sneakier?

    I reckon that depends upon whose shoes one is walking that mile in, don't it? (LOL)
  14. cable666

    cable666 Well-Known Member

    Interesting. Thank you.

    Actually, there are many databases out there that contain information on you.

    FBI Criminal DB - If you have ever been arrested, you are probablly on there.

    Bounced Check DB - A private DB for member banks that report whenever you bounce a check. You may find you can't open another checking account somewhere else if you are on this DB.

    Regional Tenent DB's - These DB's are used by landlords to report on you if you rent a home from a participating landlord. If you have a dispute with a landlord and they report you on this DB, you are usually blackballed, even if you are correct.

    Medical DB's - Your medical history as reported by your hospital and and doctor. Medical insurance companies love to check this one out when you apply for medical insurance.

    Insurance Claim DB's - Anytime you file an insurance claim, lots of insurance companies know about it. Try getting new auto insurance after a a couple of accidents, even if not your fault.

    The sad thing is that many of these DB's are private and you are not intitled to see the contents. They don't fall under the FCRA.

    The FTC is considering asking for laws to give you the right to view any database record on you. In Britian this has finally become law because the British Govt. became so good at tracking the activities of their citizens in the name of Public Safety (You are assumed to be an IRA terrorist unless proven otherwise).

    Demand your privacy from Congress. I feel that keeping a file on someone should fall under the same guidelines as a search warrent. Unless there is evidence of wrongdoing or a compelling public safety need, then there is no reason anyone should be allowed to keep a file on someone else.
  15. John77

    John77 Member

    Here's the URL of a free database that you may find interesting:

    You can look up an individual by either their name or SSN to see if they have
    filed for bankruptcy anytime since January 1992!
  16. timjcathom

    timjcathom Well-Known Member

    Access to PACER is available to anyone, and cost only 7 cents a page.
  17. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    MIB (Medical Information Bureau) and all insurance databases can be checked for information. I have posted info before in another thread. You can find out if you have a file with them, and if so, what's in it, if it is incorrect, you can dispute it.

  18. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    Re: Anthony: Two points.

    I have to agree with you here. There are very few times that someone should file a BK. Most of the time you are better off just walking away.
  19. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    Re: Anthony: Two points.

    Not correct. Pacer is a database pertaining to public information rather than a credit-reporting agent. TILA, RESPA and FCRA have nothing to do with â??verificationâ? of a potential borrowerâ??s statements regarding a loan applied for. A lender is under no obligation, whatsoever, to disclose this type of verification process. IF one hasnâ??t filed BK, theyâ??ll have nothing to worry about. If they have and seek to conceal the fact by manipulation of the system, such lies are not difficult to uncoverâ?¦ This, at long last, is my overall point.


    Thanks for the clarification. This was cleared up by up by a previous poster. When I learned that they were a public information database I laughed out loud. The funny thing is, I used this very system about 4-5 years ago and forgot all about it. We used to look for customers who had recently filed bankruptcy. This was the target audience that my company solicited in its ad campaign for financially challenged customers who were looking for a loan. I can' t believe I forgot something that I worked with for almost 2 years...
  20. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Anthony: Two points.

    Well, there are those circumstances or conditions under which people might consider that bankruptcy is the way to go. My own step-daughter is an example of that. They live in a reasonably nice brick 2 bedroom/w attached garage now a living room places in a fairly nice neghboorhood. They have a new pick-up and an late model van and an older van he uses in his painting business. 4 kids that, like all kids, always want or need something. Pretty average type folks, you would think. She had a nice job working for the state, he had a steady job working somewhere at fairly average wages. Good credit. She couldn't understand why I wasn't in better shape than they were by far. All I had to do to get myself fixed up was to love the Lord, (their way only, of course) and all my problems would be taken care of. The Lord would provide no matter what and all one had to do was to be saved and serve the Lord and there would never be anything else I would need. Of course, she knew that since I didn't go to her church, that's why the Lord was punishing me.

    They were giving BIG chunks of money to the Lord. At least 10 percent tithing and more plus their almost daily donations. And they took off from work a lot. We gotta go down to Mexico and hold this 2 week revival meeting in Mexico every couple of months. And after a while, their two good jobs would not support all the payments, 4 kids eating like little horses and always needing new shoes as kids do and several new cars in succession. They and the whole cogregation were/are supporting the Lord so much that their pastor gets to drive a new Mercedes, a new pickup truck, a new Lincoln SUV and much more. Of course, he don't own any of them they say. Everything he has belongs to the church, not to him. Even his big wardrobe of $2500.00 suits belongs to the church. He has to look good, dontcha know? He gives everything he's got to the Lord, so we gotta support him.

    Pretty soon her husband's job wasn't enough for them so he quit to beocme a painting contractor. Never mind that he didn't know anything much about painting except what he had learned doing it for some other contractor on Saturdays.
    Never mind that he didn't know how to bid a job either. He'll learn quickly.

    Then they made her a "teacher" in the church and so she had to serve the Lord, so she quit her job with the state.
    Now they are up talking to a bankruptcy shyster because they want to get rid of their debts but don't want to lose anything. Everybody's doing it these days, dontcha know?
    Nothing to it! Just file BK and dump the load and keep the proceeds. Can't tell the kid a darn thing. She knows it all.

    Oh well! What else is new?

    But what to do if you aren't in there buying your preacher his next new Mercedes???? You got no protection, that's what! I sure must be one dumb sukkka not to be able to see that!!!!

    Bankruptcy must be the great new wave of the future, eh?

    And you know I gotta be doing something nasty and surely illegal and evil to be able to get away with making the debtor eat the bills himself and wipe it all off my credit history too. Nobody can do that! That's wrong. Everybody knows you can't do that.

    Funny! She's serving the Lord and got no credit, no credit cards any more. (Who needs 'em anyway? Don't do nothing but get you in trouble.)

    And poor deluded me, I just got a new Chase Platinum in the mail yesterday with a great limit on it. Just wait till I go take back my two houses from the bank next month. Of course, she don't believe that's going to happen either. Unheard of! Everybody knows that you can't make the bank give you back your houses 5 years "for free" after they took them away from you. Gotta be something wrong with that.

    I sure hope she don't die of disbelief one of these days.

    But Hey! Don't get the wrong idea. She's really a great kid, and has raised 4 fine grandkids. Just a few things we don't see eye-to-eye on. So what's new about that.

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