hi everyone just putting a word of warning out there from personal experience. recently we cancelled our dish network service we found a better offer through a competitor that saves us $ and offers free upgrades to boot. well getting to the point when I called to cancel the service their rep informed me that we would incur a $ 100 termination fee for not fullfilling our 12 month committment term. I have copy of our contract that was signed when service was opened , there is no committment term or reference to any disclosure as they claim anywhere on this generic contract. I have not received a bill yet to dispute the charge but all of a sudden my credit card was automatically billed the fee. their rep claims they have authority to do this under the contract agreement which again does not contain this information. so I wrote a FCBA dispute by CMRRR, disputed the cc charges and requested a copy of the alleged signed contract that upholds their above claims (which I know they don't have.) be careful guys it appears some people these days are out on the prowl to screw you out of your hard earned $ while they profit . an educated consumer is their worst nightmare as they can no longer take advantage of us.
Since this also involves issues of consumer fraud or deceptive advertising, file a complaint with your local DA. Include a copy of your contract, and note that contrary to their claim, and CC charge, it does not contain any termination fee. Be sure to dispute this charge with your CC company, in writing, within 60 days of receiving your CC statement. Indicate in detail that it is in violation of your contract. They can reverse the charge. In addition, merchants who have access to the CC systems in effect certify that the charges they make were "authorized". While you are at it, also file a BBB complaint. Raise the stakes, quickly, before they even consider sending it to collection. They will either back down, with an apology or excuse, or they will piss off the DA. Even if some of their customers may have a termination fee in their contracts, if you don't, others probably don't either. It doesn't matter if the company intended to, but made a mistake, what you signed is what you both agreed to. That is the way the DA will see it.
Ontrack thanks for your input I am one step ahead this time from all your previous advice I already sent a certified letter to both dish and my CC company who is sending me a fraud affidavit to sign so they can reimburse the charges. I also contacted the AG as they directly investigate the matter instead of the DA. in regards to the BBB many states are no longer accepting consumer complaints all consumer issues are now being processed through the Dept of financial Institutions . each state has their own I am told. the dept of financial institutions also regulates all collection agencies and forces them to respond to complaints unlike the BBB, they also have the power to pull their business license , sieze their assets and forward the matter to the FTC to pursue legal action so I see hope is in sight for the consumer well as I say if they wanna play dirty then I am one for dragging their name through the mud !
EchoStar/Dish Network settled with the attorneys general of 13 states on the issue of charges for undisclosed termination fees: http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel052203.htm "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE May 22, 2003 AG ANNOUNCES SETTLEMENT TERMS ECHOSTAR CORP. REGARDING ITS DISH NETWORK SALES PRACTICES Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers today announced settlement terms with Colorado-based EchoStar Corp. regarding its Dish Network sales practices. The Assurance of Voluntary Compliance (AVC) requires EchoStar to clearly and conspicuously disclose the terms of its satellite television service and the financial obligations customers assume prior to the purchase or lease of a Dish Network system. Moreover, for a period of 5 years, Echostar will be unable to enforce contract terms and obligations against customers who claim not to have received pre-sale disclosure of the term unless Echostar has documentary evidence that the customer did in fact receive the pre-sale disclosure. In addition, the agreement prevents Echostar from assessing a termination penalty against customers who must cancel because of nursing home placement, death, catastrophic loss of the customerââ?¬â?¢s residence, or loss of signal. Finally, EchoStar will pay the 13 participating states $5 million in restitution and fees. Oregon, one of the lead states in the investigation, initiated the query after receiving complaints from over 125 Oregonians. Disgruntled customers reported that EchoStar assessed a $240 termination fee upon cancellation of their one-year contracts, yet never disclosed the fee in the course of the Dish Network sign up. Customers further complained that EchoStar failed to refund prepayments and automatically charged the undisclosed fees to credit cards and bank accounts without the consent of the customer. California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, and Wisconsin join Oregon in the settlement. "In our changing marketplace, consumers are being asked to sign long-term service agreements with regularity," said Myers. "The settlement with EchoStar establishes a crystal clear standard for integrity in these increasingly important transactions." The settlement provides restitution for consumers wronged by EchoStarââ?¬â?¢s practices and establishes important protections for current and future Dish Network consumers. EchoStar is required to disclose clearly and conspicuously all of the fees that customers will be held liable for if they cancel during the term of a one-year contract. Further, the company must provide additional disclosures regarding the unique characteristics of satellite television when compared to traditional broadcast and cable television, including the availability and fees associated with acquiring local programming. Other disclosure requirements include: All required fees: including required minimum programming fees, charges for receiving local channels, activation fees, standard installation fees, fees assessed for failure to return equipment, and fees associated with downgrading programming; Automatic renewals for contract periods that extend beyond one month; Cancellation procedures; Rebate procedures; Federal, state and local rescission laws; and Whether a dish advertised in a promotion is reconditioned and the circumstances under which it is free. Additionally, the agreement requires EchoStar to disclose its no refund policies prior to accepting prepayment from customers ââ?¬â? critical information for customers considering a long-term contract. The terms of the settlement include an array of other key consumer protections: EchoStar must clearly disclose the charges that will be assessed to consumersââ?¬â?¢ bank accounts or credit card accounts if payments are made through an Electronic Funds Transfer ("EFT"); Convenient cancellation service must be available to customers; Establishment of a system for the prompt receiving and resolution of customer complaints; and EchoStar must ensure that all installers are properly licensed and bonded under state law. Lastly, under the terms of the settlement, customers may pay the remaining term of the contract rather than be subjected to the $240 termination fee. In addition, prior to entering into the final settlement agreement, the Attorneys General required Echostar to forgive the debt of customers who incurred the termination fee prior to December 31, 2001 and still owe the debt to Echostar. These customers will receive a letter from the company to assist in repairing any damage to their individual credit history. Under the settlement, EchoStar agreed to pay the states a total of $5 million. Of this amount, $3 million will be used for consumer restitution and will be divided in an equitable manner among the states. The remaining $2 million is expressly designated for costs. Oregon, as a lead state, will receive over $480,000; $250,000 will be deposited in the stateââ?¬â?¢s Consumer Protection and Education revolving account with the remainder available to reimburse Oregon customers who paid a termination penalty, or did not receive a refund, and did not receive the necessary pre-sale disclosure. Oregonians who believe they may be eligible for a refund should contact the Department of Justice. Consumers wanting information about consumer protection in Oregon may call the Attorney Generalââ?¬â?¢s consumer hotline at (503) 378-4320 (Salem area only), (503) 229-5576 (Portland area only) or toll-free at 1-877-877-9329. Justice is online at www.doj.state.or.us. CONTACT: Kevin Neely, (503) 378-6002"
Although I have not had much luck with BBB complaints myself, other than getting an indignant reply from a merchant who placed a fraudulent charge on my CC, they at least make the business practices visible to other consumers. In addition, they will forward your complaint and tally it in their posted scores for the company. Just think of it as the flip side of their reporting you to a CRA. If you look at Dish Network's CO BBB report, you will see that they have complaints, many of which are in areas that might include undisclosed termination fees. They are also a member, and BBB claims they have resolved most of their complaints. Just don't count on it. I would not hold off on, or delay in filing complaints with AGs, or FTC. This company has no reason to not know they have a problem, regardless of what spin their CSRs put on it, since they settled and paid fines over just this issue. Just don't limit your actions to that, since they act slowly. AGs actions are often invisible until they either sue or reach a settlement, after first waiting for the complaints to pile up, or an election year to come around.
Also note that as part of their settlement they were required to do this: "Establishment of a system for the prompt receiving and resolution of customer complaints;" The CSR didn't exactly comply with the agreement, by just saying when you disputed that they had the right to do it under their contract, particularly when their settlement was for charging fees not disclosed in the contract, which was exactly what you were disputing. It would appear she had a duty to direct you to the channel or department established to resolve customer complaints, not attempt to convince you that you had no right to complain. Her action probably undermines the validity of the audit data necessary to verify compliance under the settlement. Are you a resident of one of the 13 states involved in this settlement?
wow ontrack, thanks for the research, seems like there is a pattern here. I'm going to go look up cases now and see if I can find anything more that may help resolve my situation quickly. I am definately taking some pro active action on this issue before they can cause any more damage. time seems to be on my side, why give them the opportunity to make any more excuses for their illegal actions. I really appreciate all of your help thanks
ontrack, heres a bit of interesting info that I discovered today. the corporations commission in my state revoked dish network and their subsidary echostar110 corp business license last year in June. so since they are illegally conducting business in this state any suggestions of how I should formulate that into the complaint I already filed?
Business licenses are a secondary issue. It may be an additional slap, if your AG wants to go after them. Or it may be an advantage if you both end up in court. Keep focused on the primary issue: the contract that you signed and agreed to did not disclose the fees they are attempting to collect. Echostar Communications appears to be headquartered in Colorado. Colorado is also one of the states that is a party to the settlement. Contact the Colorado AG. Include a copy of your contract in your complaint. The BBB site also shows Echostar, in Colorado, as a BBB member. File a complaint with BBB, in Colorado. Include a copy of your contract in your complaint. The BBB report contains a summary of the settlement, and a link to further information.
By the way, browse the reports under "Echostar" on ripoffreport.com. Based on the amount of "damage control" attempted by their employees in response to complaints, it would appear their systems for keeping track of what disclosures, promises, offers, agreements, and contracts are in effect for any given customer are weak. Repeatedly, customers report one thing, while employees assert they must have agreed to something else, since that is the company policy. Customers report CSRs promise one thing, later there is "no record" of that. In some cases credit cards are credited back to correct billing problems, only to have the same erroneous charge go thru again.
ontrack, the link on the BBB website is no longer working I think the info from that site was blocked or removed. also I shut down the acct so they couldn't re-charge it and had my cc company issueda new # stupid move now all my history is wiped out any suggestions?
What history is wiped out? If your concern is the effect of account age on FICO, your "account opened" date with the CC company will generally be carried over to the new number. Changing numbers should not affect the average age of your accounts. Your statements will show the transactions against the account, both before and after the change in number. You do want to make sure the charge is disputed, in writing (not just by phone), with your CC company, timely (within 60 days of the statement date showing it) to preserve rights under FCBA. A copy of your contract sent with your dispute to your CC company supports your claim that the charge was not authorized. CRRR to prove you did it in writing. The BBB report did list the settlement, whether the link is still good or not. Contact them to get access to the settlement details. Have you called the Colorado AG's office? Sometimes you get the best information talking on the phone.
new news: DN called me, responding to my BBB complaint and decided to argue with me claiming they didn't break any law nor would they refund my $ so I told them to put their rebutal in writing and hung up. wrote letter to cc company requested that they report the old date when acct was first opened , the new acct # did not reflect the old date , BTW it did effect my fico big time by 40+ pts . they should be responding soon. the link from the BBB site is no longer accessible, but I plan to call the CO AG again I keep reaching a busy signal I did forward a complaint via fax. I hope DN gets severe penalties $$$ they deserve it for operating on a revolked business license and stealing consumers money. thanks for your help
Who called you from DN? What department? Is this being handled by their customer service department, or someone in their corporate council's office? In other words, what level of visibility did your BBB complaint get, and what do they have in place to ensure compliance with their settlement agreement? Did you forward a copy of your contract along with your BBB complaint? How did they justify a fee not disclosed in your contract?
well unfortunately I don't recall what dept contacted me as it was like 9pm when they called,which was unusally late business hours I usually write down dates, names and time of call but it was late, so all I can remember was a female rep who had a major attitude yes I did send a copy of my contract with my BBB,& AG complaints . DN response to the complaint was how they continued to uphold their claim but wanted to actually verify if I had a copy of the contract ( calling my bluff) I reaffirned and offered to fax it to them and they stated they would order a copy and sent it to me. I can't wait to see what they fabricate because I already have the real deal and they have squat. they even had the nerve to lie when I informed them that I knew their business license in my state had been revoked I could just picture her face when I provided the web site info that exposed the truth its like a deer in the road when it sees the headlights (frozen,) well she was speechless. I informed her that I was not going to debate this issue any further, and if they wanted to resolve it to send me a letter and if they didn't to send me their rebuttal in writing and hung up I am waiting to see the response they provide to the BBB.
If you don't track your contacts, and send followup letters, you may end up back at square one. Square one is them continuing to collect their illegitimate fee. If they promise to do something, get a name, and address, and send a letter summarizing what they were going to do. You then establish a paper trail, without which they are free to claim they made no such promise, or even that you agreed to something else, or were satisfied with their explanation. Keep in mind that whoever you are dealing with, whether CSRs or other departments, wants to get you out of their hair. They don't want to do any work, because it means they made a mistake, will likely mean they lose, and because some people are lazy. They would rather pretend nothing ever happened if it suits them. They would rather just send all problems to a CA, and claim there is nothing they can do. No response, or inadequate response, from you lets them do that. You want to throw a wrench in that path. That is why your complaints include a copy of your contract. Short of going to court, embarassment is your strongest tool. The CSRs will not decide anything, but with the person who will decide, to win you want them convinced they are in the wrong and will lose. In that case they will have an interest in fixing it. "Every battle is won before it is ever fought." -- Sun-tzu
usually the BBB will notify you in wirting of the status of the complaint I am waiting to determine if they failed to respond or what their position statement may be. my paper trail so far consists of certified letters with the return receipts from DN, the colorado AG, BBB, and my state BBB, AG I figured why not cover all bases. I have also sent a letter to the FTC to add to their file.
Do not forget following up if you do not hear anything from any party you have contacted. In particular, if someone at DN fails to do anything they said they would, follow up immediately, and in writing. It is also best to send a letter memorializing such conversations, and specifically summarizing anything they say they will do, immediately following them. If you have heard nothing in a month, call, or if necessary write. "On xx/xx/xx, I contacted you by phone, and spoke to Ms. Y, who promised she would send me a copy of my signed contract from your records. To date I have received nothing. When may I expect your response?". Or "The contract you sent does not have my signature, and is dated over a year after my service was started." etc. Don't drop anything. Things get lost, misfiled, or misclassified as resolved. Even if you find out one of your contacts will not be taking anything further, you want to know what they determined, or what reply they got. You want your paper trail to show not only that they screwed up, but that they should have known they screwed up, so that any third party can see clearly that they should have known they screwed up, so that if it were to come before a third party they will know that the third party will conclude they should have known they screwed up.
