Lizardking, PsychDoc, Butch, NanaC, etc.......can anyone speak to why to fight back, have a litigious mind set, and repair your credit yourself instead of just rolling over and declaring BK?? Please read my background/situation on thread titled "should we surrender another vehicle". I need imput from some of the proactive fighters that I have been reading on these boards. Just because we have a huge amount of debt ($75K unsecurred) doesn't mean the BK is the answer. Agree??
i don't agree. either way you aren't paying your creditors, and with BK you are allowed to move forward sooner. that is, unless you want to spend every moment of your life wondering who is going to sue you next, garnish you next paycheck, or take your house. in some situations, bankruptcy is not the best answer, but when you have $75k in unsecured debt and surrending your vehicles, that would probably be your best bet. if you can't pay your bills now, what are you going to do for the next however many years until your credit is clean?
and i should add that i am a huge believer in paying your bills and not stiffing your creditors, but there is no right or wrong answer to a bankruptcy question. i filed 5 years ago and my bankruptcy doesn't even show on my credit report. why do you feel one in your situation should NOT file bankruptcy?
why do you feel you should not file bankruptcy? why do you feel it is more beneficial not to? and i don't want an answer of "my credit history...". screw the credit report industry. a fico is an easily manipulated number derived to oppress people that have encountered financial hurdles. any well educated person can manipulate a credit report into being whatever they choose it to be.
Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK No sensible person would try to avoid bankruptcy as long as possible, with the ultimate goal being to file bankruptcy when the judgments eventually come. She seems to think she will be able to negotiate the debts, and then settle for pennies on the dollar. All it takes is for one creditor to sue, and the whole plan falls apart.
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK I do believe these debts can be settled for pennies on the dollar because the OCs or CAs would love to have "some" money when they know they could lose all of it with a BK7. I do NOT believe the whole plan falls apart if one creditor sues. The bottom line is that they want money not a law suit and I can still settle before going to court and getting a judgement. Settlements, charge-offs and even judgements are all easier to get removed from your CR than a bankruptcy. This gets to your question, jenz. Maybe I am misguided but I feel a BK is the worst item to have on your CR. I know an educated person can manipulate or clean up a credit report but I have come to believe it will be the hardest/most difficult path with a BK. I have plenty of experience cleaning up credit from when I was in college 20 years ago and lost my job to cleaning up my ex-husband's credit which had 2 judgements on it. It was not easy. I had to work at it but I was very successful. But a BK is for a solid ten years. How do you deny as "not mine" or dispute to get removed?? I think you have much more going against you in the future with a BK verus charge-offs and settlements, even judgements. Maybe I am wrong but I don't know how to find our the right answer. If I discuss this with the BK lawyer to find out my realistic future with or without BK, they just push me to the BK since this is how they make their money and they are biased. I hear of people who had no problem after BK and say it is the best thing they ever did and others who desperately wish they had never done it. What's the answer? I am not making this decision lightly and am definately concerned with some of these debts since they are very high. Nissan at $15K, BankOne at almost $12K and $9K (2 accounts), MBNA at $15K, and Capitol One at almost $5K plus 15 other creditors at various amounts. My agrument originally in support of BK was that this was too much debt to handle negiotiating since we were not saving any money even without paying them each month AND because some of the amounts were so high, chance are they would sue for a judgement. Now things have changed and we are able to save some money each month and could settle out of court if any of them went for a judgement. By the way, the money we are saving is not in the bank and is coming from side jobs. Another part of this debate is that my husband's ex-girlfriend filed BK about 5 years ago and he saw first hand the trouble she had getting any credit afterward and how she swore it was the worst thing she ever did. He has never wanted to file BK. My ultimate goal is NOT to avoid BK as long as possible and then file when the judgements come in. If BK is the best option, then I would want to do it asap to start the 10 year clock now. BUT, if BK can be avoided all the better.
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK Protege, I think that your view that you **might** be able to settle for pennies on the dollar is somewhat unrealistic. It just doesn't work like that. If you want to settle for deletion, you will have a very hard time finding CA's who would be willing to delete these accounts from credit reports without a substantial amount (if not the full) of the balance owing being paid in settlement. If you want to settle for pennies on the dollar, file BK 7, and then you have a chance. But I doubt the creditors will still settle for deletion and then even if you dismiss the BK 7, you will still have the notation. Yeah, a bk 7 is bad. But so is not being able to buy a home because you have a bunch of open CA accounts, that are still within the SOL of obtaining a judgment. Or you don't want to buy a home because you are waiting the SOL to run out for your creditors to obtain a judgment against you. You stated in another post that buying a home is one of your goals, filing BK 7 WILL NOT PREVENT you from doing this. Sure, you may have to wait a few years for the BK 7 to age, and in the interim time work on establing NEW POSITIVE tradelines, but within a few years after filing BK 7, you can still have good enough credit to buy a home. Many posters here have filed bk 7 and have gone to get homes several years thereafter and have managed to get FICO scores at about or around 700.
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK LizardKing: I was guilty on all counts of the charge-offs. 6 charge-offs totalling around $30,000 in bad debt. Hi Protege, First, I applaud you for your "take no prisoners" attitude. As noted above LK was in debt too, although not quite as much. Just means you'll just have to do twice as much of exactly the same thing. He climbed out by using the very system against those whom would use the system against you. LK is one of the pioneers at turning the tables on creditors and doing ONE thing; "Making it more expensive to collect what is owed, so as to render it "not worth it"". You can do that too. However it's not easy. The easy way is to file it all out of course and live for 10 more years with a BK on your report. If you really want to fight, start with 2 things; 1) Go get a book (at any bookstore) called "To Pay Or Not To Pay", by Stanley G. Hilton. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-3385996-0695263?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 When done correctly, dramatically increasing the expense of collecting money the creditors will acquiesce to a penny's on the dollar deal just to get rid of you. It's merely a business decision. You will have to look beyond his Calif. style, bleeding heart liberalism tho. Get past that and there's TONS of good stuff in there. 2) Send me an email.
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK Oh of course Jenz. You're right. Only problem there is her CR is trashed for 7 years instead of 10. Neither scenario is acceptable as far as this poster is concerned. Just like you, I'm all in favor of anyone "taking care of his/her responsibilities". However, I don't see anything wrong with ... ahem ... renegotiating the debt. Here's the tactic you probably like the least; giving them every opportunity to break the law regarding your rights, and subtracting the cost of same from the debt which is owed. It's not the consumer screwing creditors out of their money. They're doing it all by themselves. If you want to talk about "morality", we can do that too, but let's also talk about Andrew Fastow, or Ken Lay of Enron fame. Or Tyco, or Worldcom, or ..., or ..., . Hell for that matter let's talk about the 55% of my income, extorted from me, that goes to the Gov't, so I can support SEVERAL of the 13 million illegal immigrants, who sneak over here to rape our generosity. (And please don't tell me they pay taxes too. Statistically, by the time we deduct the "taxes they pay IN" from what the system "pays out" for them to be here, we're $20 Billion a year [NET] in the hole). It's all about money, OR VOTES. Let's talk about these Corp. Hot Shots screwing little old ladies out of every penny they've ever dreamed about so they can live in a $100 Million Mansion in Beverly Hills. BTW, their $100 Million Dollar Mansions are exempt from Fraud disgorgement laws, because it's their ... ahem ... "primary residence". . Look, Big bugs eat little bugs Big fish eat little fish Big people eat little people Just the way it is. .
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK Yeah JerzyGurl, It's all different for each individual situation. That's why it's impossible to answer the [age old CreditNet] question; "Well yesterday I send my val. request to the CRA. What do I do now". LOL Answer; Your guess is as good as mine.
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK Butch..so true! Some folks are stuck with BK's and have had success getting Chg offs removed. I have no clue how it works...it could be the individual handling your case. Maybe the person that opened the dispute was in a good mood or felt lazy that day, or vice versa. Who knows.
Re: Re: Re: Do not BK - fight BACK i have no problem with someone renegotiating a debt (i think most CNers know how i feel about suing when they haven't paid ) my attitude has always been not to stiff your creditors as we other consumers end up paying for it. to the OP - no, we would rather not have some money instead of you filing bankruptcy (in regards to your comment of settling for pennies on the dollar). if you have stiffed us and unless you are willing to pay up at least 40% - we would rather see you suffer with your credit decisions. (sorry, but true) the problem that i see here is that she claims she can afford her lifestyle, but is returning vehicles and has incurred a lot of debt. she seems to not want to pay out of venomous feelings towards an ex. the OP should be willing to do whatever it takes to get out of this hole she has dug - even if it means getting 3 jobs. 7 years for SOL unless they bring judgments - in which case that can go on forever and ever (if they renew). Credit repair begins with an attitude of change. Unless you change your behavior credit repair will not help you or anyone for that matter. Neither will bankruptcy. You need to figure out what got you to where you are, take responsibility for those decisions, decide what your goals are and last but not least, have a plan in place so you never get there again. This goes for everyone.
