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Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by JMAC, Oct 22, 2001.
Oh come on now, Breeze:
You know they ain't gonna get caught so they can do what they want with impunity.
It's always the other fellow who's gonna get caught.
I understand that INS gets pretty unhappy with them and is pretty good at tracking down the "professionals" at the stupid game.
I imagine that if they catch them they get a pretty stiff sentence. I really don't know, but I'd imagine so.
Well, I was pointing it out in regards to this particular situation. It boils down to the roommate didn't just use credit and identifying information to get credit, the roommate would actually have had to get a duplicate driver's license, or steal hers, in order to pull this off.
So she really should bring criminal charges against the person. If she claims fraud, that is one of the things that could happen.
You're dense tonight Bill
Well, Breeze, I most assuredly don't want this thread between you and I to "get out of hand", so I'm not disputing what you are saying about it being fraud, but I just don't see how it's fraud. Yeah, I understand that the roommate did "defraud" her, but I'm just not all that sure it would be charged that way. I'd think this identity theft thing would be more applicable. I'd also tend to think that it would be straight theft as well.
Now then, I'm not "lawyer" enough to know what is right and what is wrong and I'm just working from "gut feeling" here and hoping that what you or maybe someone else will come back with will get me on the right track and give me some insight into what is legally correct.
Thanks for your input and comments, Breeze. I do appreciate them. You put out swell posts, it's just that this business of saying it's fraud just isn't "jelling" well with me. I know that what you are saying is correct from a practical standpoint beyond a shaddow of a doubt, but as I analyze my own feelings, I have a tendency to want to think that when it came down to what a D.A. might actually be able to charge them with criminally, what would a theoretical D.A. be likely to file in such a case.
So from a lay person's standpoint, I think you are absolutely right and so I'm not picking bones with you, just wondering what charges a prosecuting attorney might actually be likely to lay on a person who did what this room mate did.
What? You can't own a car with out a license?
I am not sure if you two kids saw my post when we were talking about criminal penalties vs. bad credit, but I described a court case I overheard a few weeks ago. A semi-similar situation.
I was in the magistrates court to get a restraining order on my stalker (what fun!) and I was last in line, so I had the pleaseure of overhearing all the cases before me.
One was a young girl who was working in an administrative type roll at a construction company. She used her 'access' to peoples personal records to apply for three credit cards in their names- a Cap One, an Amex, and another (I forget). She rang up about $2500.00 over three months before getting caught (the criminal matermind had the bills and merchandise shipped to the office- where the victims also worked). Anyway, she was guilty. Three felony counts, one for each card ($300 and above was felony).
Her sentence? 10 YRS PER CARD- total 30 YRS!
Now, they are going to let her serve them concurrently. She is going to spend the first 2 years on work release, then she will be eligible for probation.
I don't know how muc the car was, but it sounds like they could be in a lot of trouble. I think they can count each signature as a separate offense from what I understood.
Better buy your roomate some soap on a rope!
No. You can't. That's the law in many states.
It's a State law to help prevent 'straw deals', delas where one person buys a car for another for the specific reason that the recipient cannot obtain financing.
YOU CAN OWN A CAR WITH-OUT A LICENSE...IT PROBABLY TAKES SPECIAL PAPERWORK....
VERY YOUNG MOVIE/TV STARS...
VERY OLD PEOPLE...
RICH PEOPLE WITH DRIVERS...
In the specific instance that you mentioned that you "overheard" in court, what was the specific charges leveled against her for her crime?
Or did you happen to find that out?
I was a little nervous, even though I was there fror my benefit, but her case stuck out to me because she seemed so young and I was thinking how she pretty much ruined her life for so little.
Her final sentence (not including civil suits which the judge said all three 'victims' had applied for) was 3 (concurrent) 10 yr sentences. She was to serve two years on work release and then be reviewed for probation. The fines- before actual restitution- were over 10k. All monies had to paid before she was eligible for probation.
I also remember them saying that she had to stay in jail until a 'work assignment' became available and that it could take a while as the WA R jobs for women were limited.
There were several 'charges' listed, but I think the final 'pleaded' charges were:
- 3 counts of Felony Theft by Taking @ 10yrs a piece. (one for each card)
Other charges listed were:
- Theft by deception (One for each charge she made)
- Theft by converting? or conversion? (something about falsely obtaining goods)
- Forgery- One cout for every signature.
The judge was really coming down hard on her verbally. And she did do wrong, I am not saying different.
She did not have ay prior arrests.
Another guy got 2 yrs in jail and 8 yrs probation (actually two counts of each- concurrent) for using two blank checks that were given to him. Apparently they were given as payment to him for services but he should have 'known' they were stolen. They were 100.00 each I think.
Amounts of 100.00 or over are considered a felony.
Geez- don't all you caring folks ask at once about my psychotic stalker.....not like she tried to kill me or anything......
Oh Shawn, are you okay hon? You were so lighthearted about it we just didn't pay attention to it.
The charges you outlined above, 100% accurate or not, sound just about right to me.
Just about par for the course in that type of situation.
I was just giving you guys a hard time.....LOL....
You have to be lighthearted after pulling into your driveway one night at 2:00 AM with a date (second date, by the way- and last!) and having a psychotic 4 foot 250 Lb (not making fun of sizes, just describing so you get an accurate picture) woman run out of the bushes in her nightgown and clock you on the side of the head while screaming that "I could never date that girl because I was supposed to love her."
Don't get me wrong, I have a sense of adventure and planned on trying most everything once, just didn't figure on being sneak-attacked by 'jabba the slut' if you know what I mean (not makng fun of moraly challenged people, just describing the situation).
It was freaky for a while but it's ok now. Kinda funny when you look back on it......
One of the funniest parts is that her husband was telling some mutual friends how mad he was at me. They said "but nothing ever happened-he wanted nothing to do with her". He said "I know, it would have been one thing to 'want to' sleep with my wife, but to 'not want to' REALLY pisses me off."
I would not consider myself a 'stalkable' person....I can hold my own and all, but sheesh! That lady was almost twice my age!
This was her third offense in less than a year- three different people! Guess that makes me not as specual, huh?
Thanks for askin', Breeze!
I am pretty sure that's what they were. I remember looking around the courtroom when I got there as it was a very surreal experience for me. I remember seein this girl and thinking she was a legal aid or something, I never would have suspected her as a 'criminal'.
However, there she was, lead away in hand-cuffs right in front of my eyes. All for $2500.00.
A funny part of the story is that she stole someones identity and picked Capital One to apply for. I am not knocking them, they have treated me well, but it's just funny she would pick a low limit card like that instead of a whopper prime one.
Having all the merchandise and bills sent to the same office where both she and the victims work was pretty bright, huh?
What a world!!
So why is it against the law to buy a car with out financing?