Emerge Is In India!!!!!

Not to get completely off subject here, but why aren't these companies here giving US jobs? A company in Maine today (can't remember the name) is moving to China or Japan to save the company $$$.

The economy Suuuuucks!!!

 

Do "you" have an Emerge account? If "you" do, "you" should read the back of the card; -issued by Providian National Bank, Tilton, NH or Providian Bank, Salt Lake City, UT-.

I've also had communications via e-mail with Emerge, have "you"? They are signed;
-Sincerely,
Cardholder Services
Emerge Master Card ** The Emerge Master Card is issued by Providian National Bank.
009530-


It's not all that uncommon for seperate entities within a corporation to buy and sell to each other.

-0m

 

For starters, there has been no history of Indian "terrorists" committing acts against our country. There have been far more home grown terrorist acts committed against our country (i.e. Timothy McVeigh, computer hackers, criminals, right wing fundamentalist groups, KKK, etc.). Show me one Indian terrorist act against our country. Americans working in a call center in Schaumburg, IL are far more likely to abuse your credit information than someone in India. You have no evidence to the contrary.

Now, someone else asked, "What is your recourse, serving a summons on an employee living in India that isn't bound by american law?" Why are you going to go after the employee making $3.00 an hour? Aren't you going to go after the company who has much deeper pockets AND is bound by American law? The conspiracy theories that are being woven here are not based on any facts. They are products of everyone's xenophobia, lack of knowledge of other cultures and their own active imaginations.

Hawg Hanner

 

What you said make sense to me now. I heard people there give 25,000 placement commission/bribe to get a 2000 salary job. Steady job is more important than the cash itself over there.

 

A friend of mine is one of the 80+ system administrators for American Express. She works in the Phoenix computing center--the facility that not only handles your credit card transaction data but also the "main" part of AMEX's business--"we are a travel agency, remember?" as she told me.

Anyway, she's in this high-security facilty: x-rayed mail, metal detectors, separate badges and fenced off from the rest of the AMEX compound. Why all the security? Because of all the information I mentioned that flows into her building. She tells me that they have a counterpart unit in India for systems analysis/programming etc. That way, they can have people, in theory, working on project 24 hrs a day. People in both facilities at her level and above would have full access to cardholder/passenger information. But, because of their information security and access control protocols, there are audit trails on everything that goes on. Therefore, it would be very difficult for anyone in her position to try and pull something using your accounts.

 

Hawg,

I asked and I'll ask again too, WHAT is your recourse? You are going to serve a summons on an employee living in India that isn't bound by American laws?

"They are products of everyone's xenophobia, lack of knowledge of other cultures and their own active imaginations." That's absurd -- You've not backed up one of your stated opinions with anything factual.

My problem isn't with India, it's people, the Hindu religion, nor even terrorism, unless you want to talk about the possibilities of economic terrorism.

Why wouldn't I go after the employee, no matter the location nor the nationality, that has access and abuses my personally identifying information that is protected by American law?

The question remains, what practical recourse is there against an individual that is not subject to American laws and jurisdiction?

Sassy

 

I'm curious, Doc, why you believe outsourcing itself is an unfortunate trend?

Especially in light of the subsequent post and question by KHM, how would you answer that -- I don't think I could answer it with anything that she would find of comfort.

While I understand the labor is cheaper and that's a business bottom-line consideration, it is also a way of maintaining American unemployment rates and all the social issues that go with that, as well as a way for the American companies to save bottom line money while not providing the work-related protections that have been hard-won by American workers and that I believe all people are entitled to, regardless of where your bricks are mortared.

Sassy

 

Sassy,

You asked, what practical recourse is there against an individual that is not subject to American laws and jurisdiction? Believe it or not, there ARE treaties in place that would allow you to go after an individual in India for taking your personal information or committing a crime against you if you wanted to. I'm not sure what your success rate would be and frankly I don't know why you would want to. If an employee making $3.00 takes your information, why on Earth would you go after him/her? What can they do for you after the crime has already been committed? There might be criminal actions against the individual that would take him/her off the street, but there are little or no civil actions that are going to benefit you directly regardless of where the person lives.

If you're trying to recover damages, compensation and/or change, you are going to go after the COMPANY. The company is ultimately responsible for what happened to you. The company is the one with the deep pockets and makes much more than $3.00 per hour. The company IS bound by U.S. law. The company is the one with the vested stake in having to protect the consumer and their own business interest.

Again, we live in a world economy and it's high time people get used to it. I almost guarantee that you wouldn't be as worried about this Indian call center if it was located in Canada, Australia, England or New Zealand.

Hawg Hanner

 

Hawg,

Treaties schmeaties! I would pursue someone making $3.00/hr as well as someone making $100/hr., Hawg.

You tend to post in generalities based on bogus assumptions. Identity theft is a crime, a felony if I remembering correctly. Why do you assume it's about wanting to make money from deep or shallow pockets or money at all? I'm not motivated by money over principle -- though I don't know that you can truly understand that.

Companies aren't the ones committing the crime or abusing the information, though it may be enabling depending on its systems and procedures. A company is an it, a thing -- it doesn't act to abuse my information -- a person within it does. Persons within a company in America are bound by American laws.

My information is American, because I'm an American. An American company doing business in another country is employing people that aren't American and that aren't subject to American law.

My hunch is, that American companies setting up shop in non-American countries are NOT providing those employees with American work-related protections, certainly not pay-related. They have side-stepped American standards and protections, hard-won, that I value as a person. I think that is shitty and that those American companies should take our protections with them and provide them to those employees as well.

You assume again, and wrongly so, that I have a problem or am not understanding a world economy.

A world economy doesn't necessarily mean my personally identifying information, you still miss the point on PROTECTED, confidential and private under American law, can or should be accessed and potentially misused, abused, or used by anyone other than myself -- my concern is the same, next door or the next ocean.

"I almost guarantee that you wouldn't be as worried about this Indian call center if it was located in Canada, Austrailia, England or New Zealand." I'm glad you qualified that statement with "almost" Hawg, because you are wrong. I have the same problem, same concern, and same question regardless of the country or its people.

You said: "The conspiracy theories that are being woven here are not based on any facts. They are products of everyone's xenophobia, lack of knowledge of other cultures and their own active imaginations."

That's YOUR opinion, it is NOT factual, based on YOUR assumptions, you've yet to back them up, and they are wrong.

This isn't about color, religion, culture or cows; lack of knowledge nor active imaginations -- why do you insist that it is?

Sassy

 

Alright Sassy, you want to deal in facts; I can deal in facts:

TRUTH: At the moment, there is no known problem of credit card and/or identity theft originating from the country of India. If you can find a shred of evidence otherwise, I will be happy to remove any previously posted assumption.

TRUTH: At the moment, there is much more known credit card and identity theft originating from the United States.

TRUTH: I can not find single report of credit card and/or identity theft originating from any call center in the U.S. -OR- abroad.

TRUTH: U.S. firms who outsource call center functions to India are responsble for protecting U.S. consumers under U.S. law whether they locate the individual responsible for the crime or not.

TRUTH: If your identity is stolen as a result of an American company sub-contracting call center functions to a country like India, you will have far more success recovering damages from the U.S. company simply because they have much deeper pockets and many more legal obligations to a U.S. consumer than any two-bit criminal located in India.

TRUTH: According to MSNBC.com, the most common method of credit card and/or identity theft is a result of a person calling a bank or other financial institution and simply asking for information about a person or by taking information from one's mailbox. These methods are much less risky for a person to obtain detailed data about an individual than any other method--and the crooks know it.

TRUTH: Credit card companies are liable for any and all credit card theft up to $50 in most cases. Credit card theft results in millions and millions of dollars worth of charges to credit card companies and likewise they spend millions of dollars trying to prevent it. They have detailed policies and procedures and perform security checks on its own employees and the companies they hire to do their work.

TRUTH: Treaties are in place that protect Americans overseas. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) also requires extensive financial procedures and systems to be in place for a variety of reasons.

TRUTH: You have provided no evidence of problems with credit card or identity theft originating in India.

TRUTH: While it may be more difficult for you as an individual to pursue a person who has stolen your information overseas, even if you were able to track him or her down, your only course of action in this country is to file a civil law suit against the individual, and even that is not common. Seldom are these individuals ever caught, and when they are, they donâ??t exactly have much money to pay civil judgments against them (especially if they are locked up behind bars for their actions).

TRUTH: It is my honest opinion that you are way, way too concerned about these call centers overseas.

Hawg Hanner

Hawg Hanner

 

I think we all agree that we are all on edge because Providian IS a shady company, and they aren't thinking about what is best for the consumer.

Our fear is also amplified because they aren't being upfront about what they are doing to our accounts, or the ramifications that there actions can have on our current credit standing.

It is bad enough to transfer your account to another company without proper notice, but to transfer the account and find your information is in another country can make anyone uneasy.

I think we should pull our resources and try to instead find violations if any, from Providian.

This is who we are upset with.

My $.02

 

You, Hawg, seem very concerned about gaining financially and not the least concerned about punishing the individuals responsible for illegal acts such as theft.

 

PAE,

I only addressed the concerns of Sassy. Frankly, I'm not as concerned about the individual who steels information because catching him and punishing him doesn't directly benefit me.

Hawg Hanner

 

That is a very selfish thing to say (and think)!

By prosecuting the 'thief' you will help ensure that the same crime is not committed by the same 'person' against other innocent victims!

 

I said I wasn't AS concerned about the thief, not that I didn't care. This thread started out because people were scared about their data being stolen in India. This thread has evolved since then. There is nothing any more dangerous about a call center in India having this information vs. a call center in America having it. The consumer is protected equally good in both cases. There is no evidence of personal data being stolen in India, but there is plenty of evidence of it being stolen in America. This is nothing but a clear case of xenophobia, no matter how you slice it. That's all I have to say.

Hawg Hanner

 

define xenophobia please

 

xen·o·phobe Pronunciation Key (zn-fb, zn-)
n.

A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

 

GEORGE, I was asking Hawg how he or she would define it.

Thanks...