EQ Deleting TL's In Masse!

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Butch, Nov 18, 2002.

  1. Nineflies

    Nineflies Well-Known Member

    Yea, I would imagine they are under some kind of contractual obligation to their target end users. But I would not put it past them to make an example of a few people. All they would need to do is blank out one file -- Mine. I would make enough noise. That really would screw my world.
     
  2. edoggie

    edoggie Well-Known Member

    From reading this board and other boards I think you should all know that nothing is never deleted completely. It just gets sheilded from your file. How else would the CRA's be able to restore deleted files on accident or reinsert files or even give your mortgage company your entire history including items that were "deleted".

    The CRA can see what was "deleted" and even put the "deleted" items back on. So nothing gets "deleted". Know that...
     
  3. Nineflies

    Nineflies Well-Known Member

    Sure. I've had them quote all the old stuff back to me. "Deleted" seems to be the term of choice with understood implications of it's limitations.

    Anyway, this fact scares me a little too.
     
  4. catleg

    catleg Well-Known Member

    In programming you call this a "logical delete"
     
  5. Nineflies

    Nineflies Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's legal to use the word "logical" in the context of CRA's, is it?
     
  6. KHM

    KHM Well-Known Member

    aren't "deleted" items only shown if you are applying for something over $150K (life insurance, mortgage etc)??
    I ask because hubby just applied for a mortgage for less than $150K and he's had TONS of deleted neg.'s and the broker didn't make any mention of it.

    Oh and his TU FAKO and EXP FAKO were right on with what the broker pulled (so was the EQU FICO) strage eh?
    634 middle score, one collection $500 (2 years old), NO CC debt, they quoted 8.375 for an interest rate....uhhhh NO thanks!
     
  7. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

     
  8. catleg

    catleg Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's a new one for me.
    Where can we find out more about full factual reports?
     
  9. Nineflies

    Nineflies Well-Known Member

    Okay, maybe a dumb question, but is the 150k based on principle or total?
     
  10. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    But I would not put it past them to make an example of a few people
    Nineflies
    ==================
    Neither would I.
    LB 59
    1*Loan amount.
     
  11. Nineflies

    Nineflies Well-Known Member

    Thanks LB! That's what I was guessing. I'm probably going for less than 120k on my mortgage.
     
  12. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    1*I firmly believe, since the FICO is arguably more important than the CR's, there should be more regulation, access and understanding of it.
    2*the consumer who is lynched by it regularly.
    3*I also believe it should be legislated that proper validation of all entries into the CR must occur BEFORE information is added, with severe penalty to both the CR and info provider if violated.
    4*We should never be put in this position.
    5*They run their business like a cheap tabloid.
    Nineflies
    ===================
    1* Nope: the only proper remedy is to out law FICO.
    2*That is exactly the snare of fico!
    3*Exactly: Why should we always be the last ones to know ??
    4*How true- there is absolutely no excuse for it!
    5*More like a con game.




    LB 59
     
  13. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Critical Update!

    .
     
  14. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Critical Update!

    We finally have grounds to complete this thread.

    Recently we found testimony from Leonard Bennett, of NACA. He beautifully elaborates on our theory that information which is not present on your report, but should be, is as equally damaging to you as INcorrect information that IS on your report.

    We all know that information must be 100% complete and accurate. The CRA's have long insisted that a CR is correct as long as the information therein is accurate. They've basically ignored the "complete" component of this argument, a component I've been looking at for a long time now.

    Professor John Nash, currently of the economics department at Princeton U., formulated the "Theory of Equilibrium in Financial Markets", usually known as "Game Theory".


    http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/7238.html


    His story is played out in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" starring Russell Crowe and Jennifer Connelly.

    From Nashes theory sprang the "Efficient Market Hypothesis", mentioned in the testimony from NACA.


    If you've not done so already, do go read this:

    http://www.naca.net/BennettFCRATestimony.pdf


    In his testimony Bennett says:

    "Beyond the importance of the FCRA to consumers, you must also consider its benefits to our economy and American business. In its original adoption of the FCRA, Congress found that â??the banking system is dependent upon fair and accurate credit reporting. Inaccurate credit reports directly impair the efficiency of the banking system, and unfair credit reporting methods undermine the public confidence which is essential to the continued functioning of the banking system.â? 15 U.S.C. Section 1681(a)(1).

    In considering the 1996 Amendments to the Act, Representative Kennedy explained, "f these reports are not accurate, or if they are distributed without a legitimate purpose, then our whole society suffers. Consumers may be unfairly deprived of credit, employment, and their privacy. And businesses may lose out on the opportunity to gain new customers." 140 Cong. Rec. H9809, September 27, 1994. These insights are still true today. Accurate information is critical for a functioning economy. I am a believer in the free market system. The more accurate the information, the better the decisions made by our economyâ??s actors.

    One of the principals I was taught in my undergraduate years studying the stock and investment markets is a concept titled â??the efficient market hypothesis.â? The idea is that the investment markets will be fluid and frictionless only if perfect and equal information is available to all market participants. The same may be said for the consumer credit markets. Businesses need more accurate and complete information with which to make better lending decisions. Whether for the financing of an automobile, a home, or a department store purchase, sellers and lenders need access to accurate credit information so that they may transact business safely and with lower risk. These include large consumer lenders such as the credit card industry or mortgage lenders. But, it also includes more modest-sized businesses without the large margins for error available to institutional creditors. Credit file inaccuracies are damaging to businesses in both directions. Inaccurate credit reports may misstate the quality of a consumerâ??s credit in a manner which could cause a potential seller or lender to inappropriately extend credit,
    or WITHHOLD credit when it otherwise should have been extended. The rise in consumer bankruptcies is one of the results of this false positive. On the other side of the coin, inaccurate derogatory information will keep businesses from selling and financing goods and services to consumers with otherwise excellent credit. The growing flaws in the credit system are endangering American businesses in both ways. Credit risks are inappropriately getting credit, while responsible consumers are often saddled with inaccurate derogatory histories that keep them from doing the same."
    [Red = my note ]


    If you really want to go study "Efficient Market" go right ahead, but it's not for the squeamish. LOL

    http://www.westga.edu/~bquest/2002/market.htm



    Suppose Bob and Mary, feeling overwhelmed by $50,000 of debt considers Bankruptcy. Instead they decide to go to their bank and borrow sufficient funds to pay off their debt, and reduce the entire problem to an installment arrangement where dramatically reduced monthly payments would be far more manageable. Or perhaps taking out a second mortgage to pay off debt. Because important information is MISSING from Bob and Mary's report, they are denied and thus driven into BK. Whereas, if the appropriate information were present a lender would have an ACCURATE assessment of Bob and Mary's credit worthiness, they would have been approved.

    This scenario unfolds in millions of different ways, albeit perhaps not as dramatic, all across the country every year.

    This presents a restriction, a bottleneck if you will of the free flow of our economy and is even, in my opinion, a National Security Issue, as I've eluded to in the past. Remember the Surpluses we had, in the Trillions over 10 years, that vanished and turned into deficit? This happened because the economy contracted.

    There has been a fair amount of Case Law to back this up too. As has already been mentioned in this thread.


    Well ... without becoming overly complex, here's what I believe is our best chance at resolution.


    § 611. Procedure in case of disputed accuracy [15 U.S.C. § 1681i]

    (A) In general. Before the expiration of the 5-business-day period beginning on the date on which a consumer reporting agency receives notice of a dispute from any consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), the agency shall provide notification of the dispute to any person who provided any item of information in dispute, at the address and in the manner established with the person. The notice shall include all relevant information regarding the dispute that the agency has received from the consumer.



    Go to your OC and get a letter, a UDF or something from them requesting that the info. be included in your report, or that it shouldn't have been removed and they didn't request it, or that they ARE reporting still. File a complaint to the CRA that this info. SHOULD be included, and certainly be sure to include YOUR info. They will deny it of course.


    When they do, SUE THEM, for violation of the FCRA.

    They should be most delighted to include your info. if you'll agree to drop your case.


    This one issue has been of interest to me because it's the only issue I have left. One 10 year old perfect TL has been "suppressed" by CBC. It's a currently OPEN and ongoing account and is reported every month on magnetic tape. Yet, they refuse to include the TL.

    Now that we've uncovered our legal basis for taking action, we shall see.


    I re-open the floor for comments, (and the ceiling too)

    :)
     
  15. merlin

    merlin Well-Known Member

    Critical Update!

    Could this hurt us, as well as help us?

    If our arguement is that everything associated with your credit must be reported correctly, and if it is not a credit grantor could be sued, then could that put an end to goodwill deletions, negotiating with CA's to remove TLs upon payment, etc.?

    Do you think this could ever be turned around onto us?
     
  16. sassyinaz

    sassyinaz Well-Known Member

    Critical Update!

    Hmmmmmm, fave Butch growling dude,

    No, that would make reporting mandatory, God forbid!!!!!!!!

    If your perfect 10-year TL was deleted as the result of a dipsute via the CRA's, the OC an have it reinserted, they just have to go through the process -- and it isn't the tape. CBC is required to keep the information from re-appearing. Your problem is with the furnisher, not CBC.

    Reporting by tape, for now, is nothing, it meets no minimum requirements for verification.

    The included requirement is for forwarding to the furnisher when there is a dispute. It doesn't mean it has to be included by the CRA's in what is reported.

    Sassy
     
  17. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Re: Critical Update!


    Not at all. I'm talking about focusing only on those TL's that are good.

    Obviously we wouldn't want to push the issue to re-insert a negative TL.


    On my account CBC, after receiving several firmly worded disputes from me, learned who I was. Once I disputed this TL, from the second largest CC company in the country, CBC decided to "suppress" it because reporting it correctly would have rendered it positive.

    This issue is between myself and EQ, not the DF. I have letters from them confirming that they report monthly, on tape.

    In this case, as with many cases in this thread, the CRA has deleted or suppressed in order to punish. In this case I even know who did it.
     
  18. LIONHEART

    LIONHEART Member

    I dont agree that deleting positive TLs are allowed under the FCRA. In fact, I am certain that that practice can and should be challenged as violative of the general fairness provision of the FCRA.

    I would take very little to make a good argument that all CRAs understand the effect of good TLs on credit scores. Deletion of a good TL that results in a reduction of a credit score is damaging. Seems that malice is implied by that conduct.
     
  19. GEORGE

    GEORGE Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: EQ Deleting TL's In Masse!

    I LOST AMEX BLUE BECAUSE IT SAID $0 CREDIT LIMIT or N/A CREDIT LIMIT~~"I WANT IT TO SAY THE TRUTH---->$15,500"...EXPERIAN DELETED IT!!!
     
  20. merlin

    merlin Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Critical Update!

    Not at all. I'm talking about focusing only on those TL's that are good.

    Obviously we wouldn't want to push the issue to re-insert a negative TL.
    **********************************

    I agree that we wouldn't focus on the negative stuff they are deleting. I was just wondering aloud if once they got hit with lawsuits because they did not fully report a positive credit history, would these jerks take a "screw you" attitude and decide that they would report an entire credit history (good and bad).

    I'm definitely a newbie and I'm not arguing the point, but just wondering aloud.

    Thanks!
     

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