Update: TransUnion dropped 3 more inquiries, added 1 inquiry (for a total of 4 inquiries), and added one new account as AU with $2000 CL and $434 balance (my wife's). For all the movement, my FAKO remained unchanged at 658. I disputed and got Equifax to drop 5 inquiries (down to 10 total). They also added the AU account from my wife's card with a balance of $434/2000. TrueCredit scores it as a 4 point gain to 642 on their model. I haven't received any notice from EQ's ScoreWatch to indicated a FICO move from 687.
I finally got Experian to drop an account that they were showing as a chargeoff in March 2003. The account was closed in 1999, but when I disputed the way they were reporting it in January 2006, my EX FAKO dropped from a 668 to a 595 when they reported the new DOLA as 3/03. Ironically, when it dropped off this morning, there was no change in my FAKO score.
Gives you a lot of confidence in FAKO. Like any measurement instrument, a scoring model can be used in 2 ways: 1) Throw consumer credit files at it, and use it to estimate risk for the extension of credit. 2) Throw variations in consumer credit files at it, and use it to evaluate the behavior of the scoring model.
No doubt! I pulled my FICOs today too. Adding to the almost useless meaning of FAKOs is that my FICOs were 687(EQ), 692(EX), and 709(TU). Experian says I'm a 628 on their model, but the one that everyone uses is the FICO and I'm 692 there. I wish I would have pulled my FICO just prior to the account being dropped to see how much of a real difference it made. The problem with FAKOs is that I subscribe to them hoping that they will at least give me a trend of movement when I make certain changes, but the truth is you can't infer anything from FAKOs - they seem to have a mind of their own. On the other hand, maybe Experian takes a day to get the calculation right factoring the change. We'll see tomorrow...
Pulled TrueCredit and Credit Manager this morning. TC gives my EX score a 2 point bump for the dropped account, CM remains the same. I'm not sure why it dropped my score 73 points when I disputed it and it did nothing when it dropped off. That's FAKOs for you. The only explanation I can think of is that losing it lowered my file's age since it was an account originally opened in 1990. Perhaps it was an offset.
I know the money is already spent, but I hope you're learning to not waste the time with FAKOs. The real benchmark is the FICO, and that is where you should gauge progress.
Gresham's Law and "Lemon Markets": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_for_lemons
Undoubtedly, but there's a part of me that secretly and persistently hopes that one day I'll find a correlation in which I can measure trends on the cheap. And...I think it's interesting and perhaps helpful to share how scoring models react to different events. While I am still in the dark about their methodologies, I am much more comfortable with FICO and the FAKOs since frequenting this forum and learning more about how they work.
In the credit markets, FICO scores are the "legal tender" for the "exchange". FAKOs are similar to the (weight) scales that have the disclaimer "Not intended for commercial use"! Overall, you should see the same trends in movements between FICO and FAKO scores, but they do not seem to react at the same pace and/or magnitude. Ironically, a credit report that gives you a higher FICO score, may keep you from being solicited for offers of credit. If you have nearly 0% utilization, you will not be looked at as favorable to a credit card issuer. If your report shows you maintain higher balances, you are an "income stream" to a credit card issuer, and hence they want your business. Credit scores are a tool for financial management, and it is healthier to view them that way. In the beginning of credit repair, they do take on a value for improvement and progress, we tend to give a high emotional value to the score. The higher the score, the better we feel about ourselves, and vice versa. This emotional factor helps create the market for the FAKO scores, with many scoring up to 950, a higher FAKO score buys us better feeling. I only pull my FICO scores once a year now, I know I will not need to use any credit for a set number of years. Say, when the time comes to purchase a new automobile, I will pull my FICO months before, and make any adjustments I made need to, and allow correction time should some error show up. It is hard to "predict" the FICO score reactions and changes; the model is constructed to reflect the saying "good history over time will increase your score". The model interprets negatives as a predictive occurence, and it does not weigh them in a straight formula. What should be watched, and monitored is when you a on the edge of a "strata", i.e. your score is close to 720, 750, etc. where the "cutoffs" are for different lending scenarios. Then, the details become critical. This is the point where the industry becomes a bit ridiculous, as is there a huge difference between a person with a 719 FICO, and one with a 720? To lending criteria, sometimes yes, and an expensive one! But I also find it very interesting to watch these movements in scores, each one does give more insight, or more confirmation of the algorithm.
I am unwillingly tied to scores at the moment. My line of work is considered speculative, so it's difficult getting conventional or even non-conventional financing to meet my needs. I'm am soliciting lenders regularly, and personal credit is always an issue. Even in non-conventional circles, they will have a base FICO that they use. If I'm within their guideline, then I've got to fight the battle over old 'skeletons' in the credit report. Thus the fixation with scores and the need to "break the code". I've got a handful of years left to deal with the skeletons, so I've got to push scores. I can't fight both and survive until time has cleaned me up.
"Know thy enemy", try to find out how the lenders "view" and rate your credit reports and scores, then plan you strategy accordingly. The best "code breakers" are the rough categories FICO publishes (neg info 35%, utilization 30%, etc...). The general rule is remove the most recent negative first, keep utilization as low as possible, etc. There are "break points" when you cross over what the "average person" has for a report detail, i.e. most people have one neg, but is over three years old, or average age of accounts is 14-15 years, most recent is 24 months, etc.
My oldest line is 14 years (and derogatory). My average age is 3 years. All of my good credit is since 2003. Although they're aging, the 'gorillas in the room' for me are a foreclosure (2003) and a judgment (2001). I don't know how much they hurt my score directly as they're aging, but I'm sure they put me in another 'bucket' and are a red flag to any lender that looks beyond a score. I think the thing that most directly impacts my score at the moment is that they're reporting a couple of collections as unpaid. Only one is, but it's incorrect and I'm having a devil of a time getting them to fix it. I think if all my derogs were reporting paid, I would get a good boost in my score. The next item, as I see it, is the derogs themselves. The strategy involved there is that the derogs are the only things giving me age. As I eliminate them, I get put into a different 'bucket' and all of a sudden I'm 15 years behind the average age of my peers. The third thing on my list is age. All of my new accounts are great, but they lower my overall age. My oldest open account is from 4/2003. I have 3 closed accounts reporting satisfactorily, but they'll all drop off by 2012 at which time my credit will be sparkling clean, but I'll have 9 years as the oldest and if I stopped everything right now, my average would be 5-6 years at that time. I don't think I can do anything about my credit youth other than allow negs to remain insomuch as they help age more than they hurt as a blot. Once I have them all reporting correctly as paid, they shouldn't hurt that much because they're all 4+ years old. Those are the broad strokes of how I think my credit is being affected and will continue to be over the short term. I just wish I knew that deleting 'this' would give me 10 points, or opening 'that' would hurt me 5 points, etc.
Was that a FAKO or FICO score - and what was your total inquiry count before/after? I just added an inquiry to Experian at the same time I dropped an old derogatory account at the 7 yr mark and added a new CC account. The net effect (for the FAKOs) was TrueCredit scored it as a 4 point drop (probably got nothing for the old derog dropping). Experian's Plus Score stayed the same. It gave me a total of 12 inquiries and I think after 7 or so, they don't hurt as bad. With Equifax, I was able to get some inquiries deleted, so I went from 10 to 6 (dropped 5, added 1). TrueCredit scores it as a 3 point jump, I haven't gotten any alerts from EQ's Score Watch yet though.
It took a couple of days, but I got the ScoreWatch alert. My FICO got a little bump from 687 to 689. It could be that inquiries don't hurt or help that much after you've passed the 3-4 mark.
Ok, things are starting to drop in now. * Experian's Credit Manager just reported the HELOC as a revolving line using 45k/66k, but does not yet report the installment loan or mortgage and my "Plus Score" dropped from 628 to 601. * Ironically, on TrueCredit Experian reports the HELOC as a Real Estate account and also reports the installment loan for $42k. They're not reporting the mortgage there either. My TC score for Experian jumps from 593 to 601. * Equifax shows an additional inquiry on TC moving from 6 to 7 and the TC Score drops 2 points to 643. ScoreWatch hasn't picked it up yet and remains unchanged. * TransUnion drops an inquiry moving from 5 to 4, but the TC Score remains unchanged at 658. We should see in the next couple of days how Experian scores the installment loan and how TU and EQ score the pair of loans. When they've all dropped in, I'll pull my FICOs to see what's changed. I should also have a mortgage that's 5-6 months old dropping in soon.
You do have to watch each of the CRAs for reporting account "type" with HELOCs. SOme report as an installment, others as a "revolving", which does affect the scoring model.
adcgroup: Was that a FAKO or FICO score - and what was your total inquiry count before/after? *this was my score from TrueCredit... interestingly enough, the same company pulled another inquiry a few days later on another report, so I was expecting a similar jump from that one when it fell off. And when it fell off, nothing changed. My inquiries totaled 3 on one report and 4 on the other. I will never, as long as I live, understand the scoring model for the FAKO or FICO. I think it's run by infants with no math comprehension.
TrueCredit and Credit Manager produce FAKOs. Equifax and MyFICO give you a true FICO score. I check the FAKOs because it's cheaper if you check a lot and I'm hoping they'll establish trends (which they do over the long term, but really confuse you on a day-to-day basis!). EX inquiries were the same before and after. * This morning, Experian's Credit Manager shows the installment loan and my "Plus Score" jumped back up to 629. The Real Estate HELOC reporting as a revolving line of credit probably hurt my "score" by 27 points because it pushed my overall utilization from 5% to over 50%. I was surprised to find that the installment loan helped me with Experian because their "Things that are helping your score" section of their report always said that my score was being helped because I didn't have an installment loan. I guess it just goes to show how a couple of accounts can really change your credit landscape. Now when I do Experian's "Score Simulator", it shows that adding a mortgage will actually hurt my {FAKO} score - by about 15 points! * TrueCredit this morning reported the HELOC for TransUnion and Equifax but is not yet reporting the installment loan for them. Even though it produces the same utilization (almost 55%), TC gives TU a 17 point bump to 675 and TU had another inquiry that brought the total from 4 to 5. TC gives EQ a 13 point bump to 656 all other things remained the same. Equifax's ScoreWatch hasn't picked up either of the new accounts yet, so I haven't gotten a score alert from them. Now to the "real thing" - my FICOs: TU jumps from 709 to 721 with the report of the HELOC. TU is showing it as a mortgage. EQ stays at 689 with the report of the HELOC. EQ is showing it as a revolving line. Maybe they're a little slow with the recalculation... Surely it affects the score in some way? EX goes up 1 point from 692 to 693 reporting both the HELOC and installment loan. It reports the installment loan as that, but reports the HELOC as a revolving, secured credit line. I guess the big thing here is how they report the line. When Experian only reported the HELOC yesterday, my FAKO took a big hit. The installment loan helped when it reported today. TU reports it as a mortgage, so maybe that's why they made a good jump.
Is there anything you can do to have them change the type? This HELOC is accompanied by a credit card for access.
