Provide me with ANY proof that anything NEAR 80% of retired people are in poverty and I will (1) take it back, and (2) hail you as the smartest person on CREDITNET.com. Buckets
So don't borrow money LB or get anything insured. It's that simple Buckets. ====================== ***That's probably where I would have wound up if I had not done that very thing. LB 59QUOTE]Originally posted by Buckets . ***Let me know when your 1one room, wooden shack in Lizard Lick, Montana is completed. You know...on that lot you bought next to the Kaczynski's. Buckets [/QUOTE]
Then you purport banks and insurance companies are to blame... Buckets ===================== Please tell me why if the banks and insurers aren't doing anything wrong;then why is there around 300,000 post here about it? LB 59
I did not say that banks and insurance companies don't do anything wrong. They are are an adjunct of our society. I would venture to say that they are no different than society as a whole. Hell, we just had someone on the board this evening asking how to lie to a CRA and someone else trying to incorrectly lead others to believe that 80% of all retired people are in poverty. You aren't much different than them, LB. Hell, you can't admit when you're wrong just like the CA's and CRA's. What makes you so different? I merely called you on your ridiculous statement about banks and insurance companies being solely responsible for sending 80% of retirees into the poor house. The problem here is a fundamental difference in philosophy between the two of us. You are either unwilling or unable to provide a source for your aforementioned claim, and I suspect you never will. As such, we will have to just agree to disagree. Psychologists use the term "self-efficacy" to describe people who believe their own efforts make a difference. They see themselves as competent, as having a right to make their own choices rather than waiting for direction from others. People who feel a personal stake in their behavior are the most likely to initiate changes and maintain them. It seems you would rather blame other people for your problems and the problems of others. You clearly don't see much fault in yourself and fail to believe people have a responsibility to do for themselves. If everyone starts pointing fingers at each other (the bankers at you and then you at the bankers), nothing will ever be solved. You don't have to finance a car, LB. You don't have to finance the purchase of a new stereo. You don't even need to buy auto insurance if you take the bus to work and/or find a job that offers insurance. In other words, be your own boss and quit blaming other people. Buckets
1*You don't think there are other reasons 2*That is one of the worst savings rates in the industrialized world! 3*few people are actively participating in retirement plans. Pail =================== 1*Name me a few. 2*wonder why? 3*Why aren't they?
Once again you fail to address the central issue of this argument. You said 8 out 10 people entering retirement are in poverty. PROVE IT! I showed you statistics online that show that it is more like 9% to 11% and not the 80% you purport. In other words, your logic, your supposition, and your opinion is already suspect, if not flat out wrong. Then you begin to engage in a diversionary tactic in hopes of finding new ground to wage war. You can't admit when you're wrong, so you begin an attack in hopes of diverting attention from your previous outlandish claims. But, in an attempt to humor you, I will answer your questions (even though I have addressed them already numerous times)...but will you ever answer mine? WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF YOUR FIGURE THAT 80% OF RETIRED PEOPLE LIVE IN POVERTY? 1.) For the 9% to 11% of retired people who are classified by the U.S. government for living in poverty (and no, not the 80% you purport), SEVERAL reasons come to mind. They include: a.) They lived beyond their means through out their life. b.) They did not save money at all for retirement or did not save money soon enough. c.) They did not take advantage of 401(k), IRA and pension programs. d.) They were uninsured or underinsured shortly before or as they entered retirement and they encountered a catostrophic illness or injury that caused them to pay for their medical bills on their own, thus depleting their cash reserves. e.) The method the U.S. government uses to calculate poverty, especially for retirees, is inherently flawed. Because it is based solely on income and not net worth, a retiree by definition is not working and thus has little or not income. As such, the U.S. government classifies them as someone living in poverty. f.) They spent their savings at the bingo hall or wasted it on something they didn't really need and/or they do not know how to properly manage money like so many other Americans. g.) They suffer from mental illness and are thus unable to adequately take care for themselves. h.) They were lazy during their working years and lived off of the U.S. government, relatives and friends and have always lived in some form of poverty. 2.) As for America having one of the worst savings rates in America, to answer your question literally, no, I don't wonder why. I know why. For starters, America invests a disproportionate amount of its income on the stock market and real estate, which is not figured into the savings rate. We put a greater emphasis on home ownership in America than in many other countries and less emphasis on savings. Plus the U.S. government taxes our income and then taxes it again when it earns interest. And lastly, and perhaps more importantly, we are also a consumption economy. Individually, we put way to much emphasis on things we don't really need, thanks in part to the constant stream of sales and marketing we are exposed to. Instead of spending $5.00 on a bag of potatoes, loaf of bread and a dozen eggs that could feed us for a week, we opt for the Big Mac Value Meal from McDonalds that will feed us for one meal. Instead of a $300 25" color TV, we need the $3000 large screen HDTV. Instead of the shirt and jeans from Wal-Mart, we need the Ralph Lauren or Tommy Boy outfit from Bloomingdale's or some other luxurious clothier. And what's worse, America's schools typically don't teach us how to truly save, manage and maximize our dollars. Few people know that you should have AT LEAST 6 months worth of living income in savings. Few people know how to take advantage of tax free Roth IRA's. Few people know how to find the best savings rates and know how to increase their net worth. It's not because the banks and insurance companies are consuming 40% to 50% of our income. Hell, taxes eat infinitely more of my pay check every year than what banks and insurance companies consume. Yet I suspect that doesn't bother you. 3.) As for retirement plans, the same information provided in #2 can adequately answer why people don't invest more in retirement plans. NOW, WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER SOME OF MY QUESTIONS? Or better yet, just admit your figures are wrong. Buckets
1.) For the 9% to 11% of retired people who are classified by the US government for living in poverty (and no, not the 80% you purport), SEVERAL reasons come to mind. They include: a.) They lived beyond their means through out their life. b.) They did not save money at all for retirement or did not save money soon enough. c.) They did not take advantage of 401(k), IRA and pension programs. d.) They were uninsured or underinsured shortly before or as they entered retirement and they encountered a catastrophic illness or injury that caused them to pay for their medical bills on their own, thus depleting their cash reserves. f.) They do not know how to properly manage money like so many other Americans. ) As for America having one of the worst savings rates in America, to answer your question literally, no, I don't wonder why. I know why. 1*For starters, America invests a disproportionate amount of its income on the stock market and real estate, which is not figured into the savings rate. 2*We put a greater emphasis on home ownership in America than in many other countries 3* And what's worse, America's schools typically don't teach us how to truly save, manage and maximize our dollars. 4*Few people know how to take advantage of tax free Roth IRA's. 5*It's not because the banks and insurance companies are consuming 40% to 50% of our income. *****admit your figures are wrong.***** Buckets ===================== 1.) 9 or 90% it is more than it has to be or should be. Believe it or not the banking and insurance industries play a larger role in this than you may think or care to admit. It matters not which one of us is right to these suffering from it. A*Some but not all. B*Where can or could they have found the money to do so? C*What are some of your reasons for this? D*Agreed this does happen. F*Vwry True: However nobody takes advantage of this fact do they? 1*What is wrong with people owning a home? Like Flan Tan says: You're going to buy a home either yours or somebody elses.I suppose he's wrong also! 2*What is wrong with that 3*I have stated the same many times here on the board. Looks like we do agree on something. 4*Or where and how to obtain the cash to fund them. 5*But there is significant over consumption. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ **********Right or wrong on the 80% Changing the figure to the 9% you say does not alter the reality of what is going on.*********** Perhaps it would help clarify things for you if you read and understood Butches post on the rule of 72 thread unless of course you feel he is wrong also. By being hung up on the 80% you're pi**ing on the parade while missing the big show.
You are right, LB. I give up. You win the battle of attrition. Arguing with you is like hitting your head across an oak tree. 80% of all retirees are in poverty and it all because of the banks and insurance companies. I can't believe how dense you are. Buckets
1*You didn't address the central theme to your statement that 80% of people who retire are in poverty 2*Your effort to engage in class warfare 3*and blame the banking and insurance industries solely for those few retirees who live in poverty is laughable 4*They can start saving more money sooner 5*they can spend less 6*if you think they will ultimately send us all into the poor house). Buckets ************************* ==================== 1*When you have people on fixed incomes who have to choose between food prescriptions or keeping warm in the winter I guess it don't matter to those folks whether its 8 out of ten or 1 out of a thousand does it? 2*Like I said before it's a mathematical problem that has nothing to do with class warfare. 3*The people on fixed incomes who have to choose between food, prescriptions s or keeping warm in the winter I'm sure are finding it laughable also don't you think? 4*How can they do that and where is this money? 5* and what is a good and easy way to do that 6*How is their operating policies preventing this? LB 59
I told you, I quit. Let me spell it out for you: I Q-U-I-T!!! I've already answered your questions (very clearly) dozens of times. There is no sense in arguing with someone who is (1) dense, (2) provides false information, and (3) likes to bob and weeve like a toy top. Besides, this thread has suddenly become very off-topic. Move to your next "damn the man" issue on this board and shirk some more responsibility for yourself and others. Buckets
http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/10/pf/insurance/homeowners/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/10/pf/insurance/homeowners/index.htm
As your motto says: "You did not damage your credit in a day. They screw it up instantly!" That's right. There's no one better to blame. You will be a victim of something your entire life, LB. What's worse, you're not smart enough to recognize it. Buckets
You're officially a putz...I gave up on this argument a long time ago. Hang it up already! Why do you feel the need to perpetually bring dead issues to the front of the board? You can't stand not having the last word, can you? Get a hobby. You said 80% of retirees are living in poverty. Statistics reveal that it is more like 9% to 11%. If you can cite a source (other than yourself), PROVE IT. If not, shut up. Buckets
Where have I changed what you were saying? You're the only one who hasn't stuck to the point. Buckets
Well since we are off the subject, does anyone know what the Gov. sets as the poverty level. That's earnings per year. Seems like I had heard a while back it was 10,000 per year.
