FICO freaks only look at this

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by J. Vick 71, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. J. Vick 71

    J. Vick 71 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at this

    Or how about this. The TU score and the EXP score, the ones that are not FICO calculated. What do they really go by that WE don't see on are reports? These scores are usually quite a bit off from the FICO scores. Is it possible creditors or whoever can get this score somehow also? The CRA can put whatever they want on this score going by what THEY have with THEIR variables that we don't see.

    The CreditExpert score takes hard inquirys on 2 years. Reports with the FICO score only show and go by 1 year hards. So if you had a hard 13-24 months and didn't pull for 13 months you wouldn't see that either.
     
  2. Nestea

    Nestea Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at th

    FICO does not keep your credit report, they simply compute a score based on what your report pulled that instant computes as.

    am I wrong?

    if I am right, then how could FICo compute something you cant see?
     
  3. J. Vick 71

    J. Vick 71 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at th

    FICO could not possibly compute the score on the credit report we receive in the mail or on-line. They compute on a report that they get from the CRA at that time. The 2 reports are different from what they see and what we see. FICO gets information that is not available to us. The reports we receive are more basic for obvious reasons.
     
  4. ontrack

    ontrack Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at th

    If FICO scores are computed on information provided by CRAs but not provided to us, then CRAs are not providing complete information to us, as required by FCRA.
     
  5. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at th

    http://members.aol.com/victcrdrpt/Score.html
     
  6. kickman

    kickman Well-Known Member

    This could really backfire. If FICOs are going to become this subjective--and we all know that subjective equals lower scores and higher interest--the Equal Credit Opportunity Act lawsuits will keep pouring in.

    There could be a flip side; one where every applicant's viewed equally...

    Nah.
     
  7. chipper

    chipper Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure this is really anything new. If you have ever financed a car, you have been approved based on your AUTO FICO.
     
  8. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at this

    Right!

    But if FICO does see it your score may be low and you wouldn't know why.


    I just checked my most recent TU;

    "In the past 48 months, Paid/Never Late".

    What I'm saying is that if I was late 49 months ago my report would still say the same thing. But the FICO algorithms would factor in the late from 49 months ago. THE ONE I CAN'T SEE.

    See?

    :)
     
  9. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at th

    No you're not wrong. There really is no such thing as a "credit report" sitting around in their system waiting for someone to ask for it.

    It's actually Billions of bits of information floating around in the universe of their massive storage system. When a report is requested, the system searches everything, extracts those items that belong to you (meet the search criteria) and segragates all that info.. Then they run it through their scoring systems. AFTER that happens, it runs that data onto a report format and onto your report. In that process, it's helpfull to imagine a filtration system which excludes information which is older than [apparently] 48 months. All very quickly, of course.

    So your report is actually complied every time one requests it.

    So even tho you don't see it in the final report FICO already has your score calculated.

    BTW - you're right again. FICO doesn't do crap except sell software. They are the "Microsofts" of the credit data industry.

    Just because YOU can't see it, does not mean their scoring system can't.

    Or, as above, by the time it gets to where you get your, FICO already has calculated your score.

    How's that?



    :)
     
  10. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Re: FICO Freaks Only

    Butch,

    Isn't the 48 months limit on TU only for positive items? That is, aren't they perfectly able (and willing?) to show a late payment that's, let's say, 6 years old in the derogatory items section of the report?
     
  11. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: FICO Freaks Only


    Well Damn, RichGuy.

    Now ya got me. Ya know, I just don't know for sure. But I think Christine does. She's the one who taught me about this problem and she's currently suing them for it.

    Her work on Bayhouse is definately worth study.

    Almost makes me wish I had some derogatory info. so I could go check. LOL

    NOT!

    :)
     
  12. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Re: FICO Freaks Only

    LOL, I'm chicken to go 30 days late myself. :)

    I do have judgments, both over 5 years old, as TU derogs. But I can't testify of my own knowledge what happens to a 5-year-old 30-day-late on TU.
     
  13. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: FICO Freaks Only

    Here is how Fico works:
    A bag of marbles represents the consumer.
    CRA 1 shows 25 red marbles in the bag.
    CRA 2 reports 25 blue marbles in the sack
    CRA 3 Says 25 Green marbles in the bag.
    FICO analyzes the information from all three of the CRAS and assigns a score of 75 to the sack made up of 25 each of red blue and green marbles.
    Upon opening the sack we find it contains 100 black
    marbles.
    Why was Fico unable to assign the correct score?


    THE END ** *** ** LB 59
    """""""""```~~~```'"""""""""
     
  14. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: FICO Freaks Only

    Here is how Fico works:
    A bag of marbles represents the consumer.
    CRA 1 shows 25 red marbles in the bag.
    CRA 2 reports 25 blue marbles in the sack
    CRA 3 Says 25 Green marbles in the bag.
    FICO analyzes the information from all three of the CRAS and assigns a score of 75 to the sack made up of 25 each of red blue and green marbles.
    Upon opening the sack we find it contains 100 black
    marbles.
    Why was Fico unable to assign the correct score?


    THE END ** *** ** LB 59
    """""""""```~~~```'"""""""""
     
  15. J. Vick 71

    J. Vick 71 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at this

    I do see, I'll be back on this one. I have some repair to finish up.
     
  16. J. Vick 71

    J. Vick 71 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: FICO freaks only look at this

    FICO scores are not by any means easy to figure out. I think there is a problem on this board with people posting their scores before and after and the information that changed is not accurate. How much time really went by between the two FICO score reports? I think a few things changed between the two pulls not just one change. The different ages on all accounts play alot bigger role than what most people believe. Along with the exact age of the lates or positives. They throw you into different categorys. Here is an example that is not discussed much if even at all.

    The outstanding balances on your accounts are less than the average in YOUR CREDIT CATEGORY

    Your total outstanding balances are less than average for YOUR CREDIT CATEGORY

    Changes in your credit report reflect a change in your score. When your balances change up or down the score reflects a changes up or down. Possibly throwing you into a different CREDIT CATEGORY. Kind of a 2 for 1?

    Anyone that pulls FICO scores alot can tell you that balances to credit limits can effect the score more than anything else.

    Also this one, I have had dozens and dozens of deletions happen to my credit report. Usually when the negative is pretty old like a charge off and it is deleted the score actually goes down a little. The age of the negative account that isn't on the report anymore and the little negative effect (because of its age) had actually helped the FICO score more with the age of the account. A weird 2 for 1 FICO score change.

    If we could just EXACTLY figure out how to manipulate FICO scores. Inaccurate information posted here on FICO score changes between the 2 report pulls really throw off trying to figure out what really happened. People really believe RNG comments or FICO scores are stupid. Everyone knows, or at least I hope it is real software on a real report. I see right and wrong things with FICO scores and it sucks we all have to go by what they came up with. It isn't the only thing that counts but it is there.

    Do you know what I really hate? I am going to pay more money for these FICO scores and we all know where the money goes. A little funny isn't it?
     
  17. bizwiz41

    bizwiz41 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: FICO Freaks Only

    lbrown59, you're the closest of all to simulating the FICO algorithm, because the answer is:

    You only see what you're looking at, and what you see id YOUR perception......

    Because there may be the 100 marbles, but we see only 75, and let's talk about color blindness!

    I know I sound a bit like the "devil's advocate" here, but FICO is not worthless, obviously it has worth to all the people paying for it (including all of us!!)

    Let's not overlook the obvious...we may b**ch about it, but WE PAY...and the people who we worry about looking at it PAY.

    I'm a math guy, and worked with economic models that are similar in "predictive behavior" analysis. FICO is looking at the "other marbles" that we SEE, but do not LOOK AT. FICO factors "soft" variables like occupation, geography, age, home ownership vs. renting, on and on..to try an determine the PROBABILITY OF A SERIOUS DELIQUENCY (60 DAYS LATE OR GREATER) WITHIN THE FIRST TWO YEARS. PERIOD.

    So...considering all of "our" circumstances, what is the average "deliquency" in the first two years of all of us? Hate to admit it, but FICO is probably fairly accurate at assigning the "percentile" we will fall into.

    Question: for those who invest in mutual funds, what do you look at? I'm sure you look at performance over time, right? Credit scoring is nearly identical. FICO does try to factor in "soft" human factors, for better or worse. It will try to "validate itself" by keeping lower scores lower, and higher scores higher (too much to go into here of how that works).

    But sorry guys, whether we like it or not, FICO is fairly accurate, and it is the "system" now.
     
  18. GEORGE

    GEORGE Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: FICO Freaks Only

    F.I.C.O. IS A FRAUDULENT SYSTEM
     
  19. J. Vick 71

    J. Vick 71 Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: FICO Freaks Only

    The mutual fund comment from bizwiz41 was interesting to me. The mutual fund has a portfolio and what do we see that it owns? Usually only the top 25 holdings. How do you really figure out what stocks or bonds or whatever is actually owned and at what percentage? Can it be figured out? No

    Does the mutual fund show the holdings of the past 7 years? Does it constantly change its holdings and percentages? The price of the mutual fund goes up and down on its holdings but what are they holding? The price is almost like the score. But the price is real. The numbers don't lie.

    What good would a mutual fund be if you knew all of its holdings and percentages? They won't tell.

    What good would a FICO score be if we all knew the variables and exactly how it worked? They won't tell.
     
  20. J. Vick 71

    J. Vick 71 Well-Known Member

Share This Page