Expertise Needed, Please. Hi All! I took my time typing all the details of my situation, and I see the subject line posted, but not my post. Ouch! I've been having trouble accessing the board. I won't re-type that ENTIRE post, but I'll include the most important stuff. It has been a while since I posted, but I have been here all along, consistently researching here, as my husband and I (married two years) are planning to buy a home within the next six months. We are cleaning up our credit, and I appreciate the wealth of information that is shared here. OK, this is what happened. In 2000, before we were married, while my husband was in college, he had a $5,000 limit Citbank card. He used it more than he should have, and got behind on the bills. When we got together, I made payment arrangements with Citibank on his closed account. Citibank closed the account after about 8 months of us making payments on it, at the end of 2001, I believe. It went to one collection agency, and I did the verify certified mail, and also had an attorney eventually write the collection agancy a letter because they continued to call my husband at work, even though I sent letters indicating that he could not receive calls at work. They sent us a copy of the Citibank bill, although it was only for ONE YEAR, and not the duration of the time he used the card. It did not include my husband's signature, nor did it include how this debt went from $6,000 or so to $8,000 plus. I know about interest, but I have nothing showing me how they arrived at this amount. For some reason, this collection agency stopped contacting us regarding this debt. We have been paying other accounts of smaller amounts off, one by one, making payments religiously, and not receiving any calls from creditors or collectors. Great. Some of these accounts are still on my husband's report, listed collections payoff, etc., but at least they are paid. Fast forward to TODAY. My husband received a call today from a collection agency, saying they bought the account, and it is now over $10,000!!??!?! Even though I told my husband not to talk to any collector if they happen to call, I guess he forgot, because he told him he could not get the calls from work, but then he told him he would call him back. As soon as my husband told me this, I called the number that the man left, to get an address, so I could send the important letters certified mail. Well, the same guy who called my husband answered the phone. Of course, I did not say my'husband's name. Rather, I politely asked for their mailing address. He paused for a minute, then said, "I'll give you the PO box. He gives me the box and city, (in California, where we live), but then I had to ask for the zip. He would not give it to me, instead he said, "What exactly do you want to send me, and why can't MR (our last name) call me?" I realize that he matched the number on caller ID to my husbands account information. Darn it. We have our number blocked, and I know hey STILL can get the number off caller ID. No privacy. So, I say, "Excuse me?" He says, "You're calling for (husband's first and last name). I say, "I'm calling to get your address, and since this is a business, that should not be a problem, right?"(I did not say my name still) He said, "Let me give you the fax number, so we can take care of this right away." He gives it to me, I thank him, he says "Thank you". NOW WHAT SHOULD I DO? I needed a physical address to send certified mail! I don't think this entire amount is owed. I am not sure how to handle this. My fear is that they will try to garnish my husband's wages. Of course we don't want to go to court. We will pay what we owe, but I think they will want the entire amount, or two payments, and we can't pay that huge amount right now, even if they knock half off -- maybe in March or April, but not right now. We are paying so much right now, we would only be able to pay $150 per month right now, and I know they will not accept that. Also, I would like for this to look as good as possible on his report by April (whatever that is ) or not on his report at all by April, which would be about the time that we will apply for a mortgage loan. How can we accomplish that? Also, I wonder about his timing. It seems he called right before Christmas. If I recall, the last collector called right before Christmas two years ago. I know it is good to send verification/validation letters around the holidays, and it looks like the collection agencies have their own strategy in calling right before Christmas. All help and responses are greatly appreciated! If you need questions answered, I will be online all evening, and I will be chacking back regulary. Thanks!
By the way, the original creditor for this account is FIRST USA, not Citibank. I accidentally typed Citibank above because the collector said Citibank when he called my husband, but my husband said the guy mumbled it like he was not sure if that was accurate. Strange. I'm sure he knows the original creditor, right?
If you don't have the zip code that is easy enough to get thru the USPS web site, or other sites. If you know the city, it is also possible to get the address of the business if it has a business license in that city. Just call city hall and ask for the business license department. If there is confusion about who the original creditor is, there may also be confusion about whether this is in fact your husband's account. Just because you assume it is the account you think it is, does not mean that if you pay it, and it is someone else's account, you will have paid off any debt you owe, or even be able to get your money back if it is an error. Obtain validation first.
First Post Disappeared. Expertise? Thank you much, Ontrack! I appreciate the great information. With your help, I was able to locate the zip code. I will send validation letter certified today-but first let me point out something else I discovered... ***Another interesting piece of information*** The collector mentioned to my husband when he called him at work yesterday that he was not able to send out a letter because he has an old address.(My husband gave me the details of the call once he got home. I STRESSED to him again last night NOT to talk to a collector PERIOD.) My husband did not give him the new address, (and I would think the collector would be able to locate the new address on his own), and we have not received written correspondence from the collector yet-just one phone call at work, and a few recorded messages left on the home voice mail. Should I fax/send a letter indicating that husband can't receive calls at work, and include the new address so he can send the letter to us? Should I validate now, even though we have not received any written information at all from this collector? I am ordering new credit reports for husband to see if this new collector is listed on any. Apparently the first collector (who has our old address) sold this account to a new collector. Thanks in advance
Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? I have a question for you! Did this new CA ever read the "mini-miranda" advising your husband of his rights under the FDCPA during this phone call? If not, and it has been more than 5 days, and you have not received anything in writing from him, then they have already violated the FDCPA - to wit: 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g] (a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing -- (1) the amount of the debt; (2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed; (3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? pd11604, you are so brilliant, I could hug you!!!! Thank you! No, no NO he did not read the mini-miranda to my husband on that call! Husband told be everything that was said on the call, three times. The new CA told Husband: 1. The amount of the debt 2. The WRONG Original Creditor (He said Citibank, but husband never owed Citibank that much, and we paid Citibank off two years ago.) The amount of the debt IS consistent with what we owe on First USA (I think Bank One now?) But the CA NEVER said First USA. 3. That he had the wrong address, and he gave the address he had been sending correspondence to. NOTHING about the mini-miranda! Unless I send out this validation letter, the new CA will not have our new address to be able to send us something in writing within 5 days. (The call was yesterday, Dec.8). So, should I not send the letter for the five days? The only way he would be able to send us any correspondence within 5 days, is if he ran a credit check (he can't do that legally, right?) or if he sends correspondence to my husband's office. It would be easy for him to get that address, because it is a large company with offices all over the US... plus he has the phone number, so he could call and get the address from the receptionist. But, he should not be able to send correspondence of this nature to husband's office legally, right? **I am going to search here to see what I can find about sending correspondence to places of business*** Any insight regarding this? Wow. Thank you so much! I really appreciate your help! If we don't receive any written correspondence from him within five days, then it appears that we have a case against them?! I am about to study the law that you posted in great detail, and in its' entirety. One more thing: I suppose it doesn't matter that the new CA mentioned to husband that he had a wrong address (and he recited the old address to my husband), and said that the mail keeps coming back to him, does it? Husband acknowledged that was an old address, but never told him the new address. I just want to be sure tha CA is not protected from this rule since he did indicate that he had an old address. All help is appreciated! I love this board. There are some great people here. Getting our credit in order is very empowering and a lot of work that I don't mind doing at all. You guys are so refreshing! Thanks for helping me get it right.
First Post Disappeared. Expertise? pd11604, without your help, I would have sent the validation letter to the new CA, giving him our new address!!!! Can't thank ou enough! When I called yesterday to get the address to CA (if you recall, I didn't ever say who I was, but CA knew that I was calling for my husband because of caller ID), I never said I wasn't calling for my husband, but I never said I was either. I just said I was calling to get his address. After the Ca snapping with, "Why can't he call", I said I was simply calling to get their address, which "shouldn't be a problem, since you are a business, right?". At that point his tone became more polite, and he gave me the fax number, so we could "take care of this sooner." Now I wonder if he wanted me to fax whatever I was sending so he could get it within the five days... He did leave one message on our home voice mail a few hours after that call yesterday, saying that the message was ONLY for Mr. (our last name), but I am surprised that we have not heard from him yet today.
Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? Well, even if the letters he was sending to the wrong address contained the "mini-miranda" he admits (#3 above) that he had the wrong address, so there is no way you received the warning by mail because there was never any contact with you His first contact was the phone call, and he did not give you the warning. You are not obligated to speak to him, so you are not obligated to divulge your address, because you "don't know anything about the debt", "the CA referred to Citibank, then First USA, and you are unsure who you were speaking to on the phone, and you were not going to give any personal information out over the phone" - right? Seems like the CA put himself into a CATCH-22 situation by not reciting the warning to your husband,once he had him on the phone, since this was his first contact, because he knew his letters were going to the wrong address! CORRECT!, wait 5 days from the phone call, then send him the validation letter by certified mail Well, no, if he is collecting a debt he has a right to run your CR, and also put his tradeline on it, but he must give you 30 days to request validation, and if he cannot provide it he must remove the TL, and cease all collection activity until such time that he does provide it Not sure about this, but he probably can if he can't get in touch any other way...the FDCPA has certain standards for the type of envelope that can contain debt collection info, like not identifying the return address as a collections agency, etc. The FDCPA - READ IT, KNOW IT, LOVE IT! http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm IT DOES MATTER! This actually helps your case since the mail was returned to him, he knew that he had the wrong address, and you could not have possibly received the "mini-miranda" warning. Then when he called your husband, he should have recited that warning since that was his "first contact" with you One more thing - VERY IMPORTANT- you need to "memorialize" your conversation with him...have your husband write down the date, time he called, the phone number if it shows up on caller id, then have your husband write down everything that was said by both parties. let him write it in his own words, recalling to the best of his ability what was said....this will be valuable evidence should you need it! good luck!
Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? Thanks again, pd11604!! Another hug for you!! You addressed every issue. Now I am reading the link you provided me with, and waiting out the five days. Husband said he will "memorialize" the phone conversation tonight, while we watch The Apprentice and basketball games. ;-) I just thought of my final question: Once the five days are up, and I send the validation letter, should I include in it the details of the laws he violated? Or should I not mention it yet, and save it for ammunition in case we need it later? Or can I send this information to someone, making the CA back off? I know we have something BIG in that he is in violation (thanks to you!), but I want to be sure I utilize this information in the best way possible. In the meantime, I will do some searches and read to see if I can find information regarding this. I will also be reading more of your previous posts, because I know they are full of wonderful things for me to learn. Your guidance is priceless, pd11604!
Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? I don't think you should list any laws at this time. You don't want him to know what you know. In fact, don't use the validation letter that is pages long and asks for everything. Just write a simple letter stating that you don't know what this debt is about and you need details. You want a copy of the original contract as well as a statement of all transactions. Then sit back and wait.
Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? Thanks for the kind words, believe me, everything I've learned was learned from others here. When I first started, I did not know anything about credit repair, my scores are all 740 to 760 now thanks to the advice I've gotten here! You NEVER want to tip your hand, you want to play the part of the "least sophisticated consumer" and give the CA's enough rope to hang themselves with! That is why you never talk to them, you get everything in writing...Never give them any kind of useful information, only the basics like your correct nameand address, never even acknowledge that the debt is yours...it is up to them to prove everything, don't do their job for them! Right now your goal is to keep them off your credit report, and to build a trail of evidence that can be used against them. Just send the validation letter EXACTLY as found in the sample letters section...don't make any changes to it Also you should get copies of your credit reports from all three companies right away to see if there is a listing for this CA If there is an entry then after you get the green card back from the CA you notify the CRA's that you dispute his listing. By doing this you are giving him some rope, hoping that the CRA will seek verification from him, and he provides it to them before sending you validation of the debt...if this happens then he has violated another section of the FDCPA and you could sue for both @ $1000 each! Read, read, read all of the old posts here to learn how to deal with CA's! then ask questions, everyone here helps everyone else out
Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? OK.. simple letter... got it! And I won't mention what I know about the violation. Thanks so much, Hedwig!! I feel much better with the advice I've received here.
Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? pd11604, 740-760???!!!!!?? WOW!! Excellent! Look at what all your hard work and the wonderful people on this board has achieved!! I am sure it feels soooooooooo good! My goal is to have excellent credit scores like yours! Little did I know that at the same time that I was maintaining my high GPA in college, I was also messing up my credit. But this board is where I spend all my free time, these days! Last night, I was reading old threads for THREE hours! Not to mention the hour I was here reading earlier the same day. Today I have been here for about a total of two hours. My husband said it's like I am studying for the bar exam. We got a laugh out of that, but we also know that it is well worth it for our future. Thanks again, pd11604. I'll keep you posted on everything.
Re: Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? You are at the right place for that Congrats on keeping a high GPA ! I can sense your enthusiasm, you are doing the right thing by reading everything you can here, that is what I did also. You will be surprised on how quickly you will become educated on the credit and collections industry, not to mention the law! An educated consumer is the CA's worst nightmare! They rely on people not knowing their rights under the law. The laws were written to protect consumers
Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? **UPDATE****UPDATE****UPDATE****UPDATE** Advice Needed, Please. **** Today, December 18, we received a letter from the collector. The letter is dated December 13, which is exactly FIVE days after the call to my husband's job. However, there is no postmark date at all on the outside of the envelope, so I can't determine when this letter was actually mailed. Considering that they are in California, as are we, I highly doubt that it took five days to get to us. My thinking is that they dated the letter for the 13th, in an attempt to avoid the violation that was mentioned earlier in this thread. They must have just pulled husband's credit report to get our new address. The letter is a brief one, simply stating that we have been contacted about this account, listing the accurate account information, and indicating that unless payment is sent right away, they will use all means of collection. Mini-Miranda is listed on the bottom. There is nothing on the letter indicating that we have 30 days to dispute the debt. Also, we have been getting messages on the home voice mail (about four since my last post) stating that this is about "business you are currently conducting." This new message started right after my husband briefly spoke with him at work. I think that the SOL for this debt will be Nov. 05, but I am still researching to be sure this is accurate. If so, I would think they will aggressively try to collect this debt while they can still sue. As I stated earlier, we can't pay this off right now. We can make very small payments on it, but can't make a large mayment until well into next year. Also, this amount due is extremely higher than the original debt, and we never received anything that explains why this amount is so much higher. I am also working on cleaning up husband's credit, as we plan on purchasing our first home next year. What should my next step be? I am concerned that they will try to take husband to court without accepting the small payments that we can pay right now. The collector did not read husband the Mini-Miranda when he called him at work. I have not been able to locate a physical address for this company. On the letter that we received today, the PO Box is listed. I need to send certified letters to them. How would I do that without the physical address? Thanks so much for all responses, and Happy Holidays!
Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? Hi there, I've been doing more research, and it seems that I can go ahead and send the certified letter to the P.O. Box. My plan is to send the validation letter on Monday morning. Is there anything else I should do in addition to this? Thanks for your help!
Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? That's a good start. And yes, you can send certified mail to a PO Box. The post office will put a card in their box that they have an item to pick up, then when they go to the counter to pick it up they will have to sign for it.
Re: Re: Re: First Post Disappeared. Expertise? Thanks so much, Hedwig. Just to be sure, the validation letter I used is in the Sample Letters, titled "Debt Validation" (no number after it). I also included the Creditor Disclusure Statement on a separate sheet. This is the proper letter, right? I wanted to confirm this, because I have read that it is good to change the wording on some of the letters, but I have also read that it is a good idea to use the Validation letter verbatim, which is what I did. When is it better to use the sample letters as a guideline only? I love writing, but if it is best (legally) to use the letters verbatim, then that is what I will do. Thanks again!
