First validation letter w/in 30 days or 30 business days??

I don't remember that the law makes any such distinction but it is generally accepted that calendar days is what Congress intended.

FDCPA says that you have 30 days from the receipt of their initial contact letter within which you should demand validation, but when you receive it can become the question so you obviously could fudge a few days quite easily. Personally I like to use the date on the letter itself so I am well within the allotted time frame with no possible argument about it. Obviously you can't do that now so I suppose you will just have to fudge a bit and explain in your letter why you were late getting it off to them. Maybe you could say you were on vacation and you received their letter when you returned. Or you were in the hospital and when you got out you received their letter. Whatever excuse that sounds good to you will probably work so long as it is believable.

We had a good conversation about debt validation during my Friday night conference call last night.

 

It is very common for the date on the letter and your receipt of it to be 7 - 14 days difference. Its also very common for it to be one week or more difference between the date of their letter and their own postmark!

If you can afford the time and file space, save every envelope with its postmark and write or stamp on every letter received the actual date you received it.

Then start counting to 30 if you need all that time, and send the next letter before then. Good idea to note in your letter when you received theirs.

 

Re: First validation letter w/in 30 days or 30 business. days??

We don't call it snail mail for nothing. (LOL) There is a story out there claiming that a reporter mailed himself a letter from somewhere in the midwest, Denver if I remember correctly, to an address in California and then went there on a bicycle beating the U.S. Mail by a couple of days or so. The story came out several years ago so I don't remember all the details. On the other hand, I've kept mental track of the number of days it takes for a certified mail return receipt requested letter to get to it's destination and I find that it almost always gets there in 4 days when going out of town to another state. Therefore when demanding validation I always recommend that validation letters be mailed CMRRR at least 5 days before the 30 day period ends.

I too recommend keeping the envelopes stapled to the original letter. I always open letters on the return address side so as not to destroy the date stamp.

I like to use the date on their letterhead as the start date. That's another reason I always include a copy of their letter with my validation letter. That way there can be no question of timeliness. Another function of photocopy inclusion is that it helps keep validation letter content to an absolute bare minimum. I don't have to mention account numbers, amount demanded or any other referential information. I don't demand they answer any questions whatever, I don't have to tell them why I am demanding validation or any of that nonsense. Two very short paragraphs does the trick. If there is any information on the reverse side of their demand letter I also photocopy that so the copy I send looks like I am sending their original back to them. I call that my DUH LETTER. (lol)

One time back about 1973 I got a demand letter that looked exactly like a government check. They could do that back then and many of them did use such letters. A green colored heavy weight letter in the exact same shape as a government check and mailed in a brownish colored envelope that also appeared to be a government envelope.

I took out a pencil and a sheet from a CHIEF tablet so it appeared that I grabbed it out of my kids school tablet. I wrote the following letter back to them.
Deer Sirs:
I went to the mailbox out by the road jus like allus. I opened up the mailbox jus like allus. I do the same thing evr mornin. This mornin I got my welfare chek jus like allus. My missus and I went to town jus like allus when we git our welfare check and took it to the bank jus like allus. I sined it and pushed it thru the windo jus like allus. The lady pushed it back and said This ain't no welfare chek
I no yu guys put some kind of hex on my welfare chek. I gotta insist yu guys quit foolin with me and fix my welfare chek. Ussins needs our welfare chek and weuns is agittin mighty hungry. Send us our welfare chek now!.
Signed Bill Bauer

Of course, I endorsed it on the back just as I would have done a real check. Never heard another peep out of them!

(LOL)

Then they passed the law saying they can't use anything that looks like a government document anymore. I'll bet some of the collection agencies hated that as bad as I did. That was a fun way to get rid of them. (LOL)

 

can some one explain to me what good a letter of validation is if the C/A can and does validate.and i have yet to figure out the diff. between a default judgment and a judgment.if you owe and the C/A can and does validate can and does sue and you know that you owe what is the diff. in if you go to court or not, the judgment will be the same.i can see if years have gone by that maybe some of the paper work may not be produced or some where there may be a slip up and that there maybe some violations racked up. i have a C/A that i have had validate and now i have been served with 28 days to answer.they did there part and proved i owe, they have not made any violations and i have no answer to give but that i due owe.my question is why show up?they will get there judgment either way.the trick for them will be to collect for i have nothing in my name no cars, trucks, boats ,houses assets of any kind so i say now they can work and spend money to collect nothing.

 

None whatever! But finding a debt collector who knows how to validate and does it properly is almost like finding a skunk in a perfume factory. Isn't likely to happen. (LOL). But that isn't the only way they violate. There are many more ways to catch them in violations.

Not much. Both smell about the same. The difference is that if you respond and show up to fight they can't get a default judgment.

So why fight if you can't win? The answer to that is to be found by clicking on my google docs link below.

So what? The lawyer is a 3rd party debt collector too. Send the lawyer a good dv letter. See if the lawyer is smarter than a 5th grader. Maybe and maybe not. Never know until you try.

Funny you have no answer. Don't answer. As you said, you don't have an answer so respond to the summons instead. I would not answer a summons even if I had a good answer, I'd respond instead.

I just gave you the answer to that question above.

So what? I have a judgment coming up soon. Maybe in April. I'll probably lose and they will get a judgment. That don't worry me in the least. A judgment is nothing more than a court order saying I owe the money but it don't say a thing about having to pay them.

I resemble that remark! (LOL). Ever hear of getting your bank account(s) frozen and all the money grabbed out? If not, you have now and you had best believe that it can happen if you have any. In my case I hope and pray they try that dumb trick but then my situation may be much different than that of most so I can make that statement safely. I do have vehicles in my name and I hope they get dumb enough to try to grab those too. They will unhand them very quickly if they try that one unless they like them so much they would be willing to pay two or three times what they are worth which I doubt. In the end I will hang them out to dry no matter what they do and the more they do the merrier. Why? Because I know how to fight back and end up winning even if they do get a judgment and a garnishment. Anybody else can easily do the same. I'm no genius and this stuff isn't rocket science. All it takes is the determination to stand up and fight back to the bitter end and the goal is to make that end as costly and bitter as possible for them. I've already got at least 5 or 6 violations against the lawyers and the fight hasn't even got a good start yet. The fight won't be over for at least another year or more and by that time I'll probably at least double that number.

The judge will give them a judgment but they are unlikely to be able to keep it for long or do anything with it while they do have it.

 

yes i have heard of having your bank acct. frozen and money grabbed,but they have been long drained.they cant garnish for i am self employed ( not the kind where people come to me but i go to them)and i do not live in a community property state.so i say let them spend money on trying to collect from me.i also know that i can be called in for a review of my assets of which i can state that i have none.it feel,s kind of good to be in the drivers seat for a change.i had done all of what i was supposed to do pay on time,build your credit,put money back for a rainy day,and then of no fault of my own the economy goes to hell.now i say screw em.

 

Yes, I know the feeling well but if you think they have no recourse in your particular type of situation then think again. I suppose that one thing you might not have thought of is that it might be possible for the judge to actually order you to pay and if you don't then have you thrown in jail for contempt of court until you do pay up. Yes, I know there is not supposed to be a debtors prison in the U.S.A. but they do have their ways. While most judges would not think of doing that I happen to know that it has been done in some states such as Mass. and also in Kansas. I've never heard of it being done anywhere else but that isn't to say it can't be done anywhere else. You say you work as a private contractor. That means you have tools of some kind. In some states those can be grabbed and in others they can be grabbed if their value is more than a certain amount and in some other states no tools of trade can be seized. Just depends on state laws. Another wierd thing that might be done instead of throwing you in jail for contempt of court is to do that and put you on probation forcing you to wear a radio collar around your ankle then trace you wherever you go and when you are on a job have the sheriff go out there and collect the check for you leaving you with nothing. While they may not be able to do any of those things what I am pointing out is that they do have their ways and I am quite sure some of them just might be pretty unique and maybe invasive. You might be able to defeat any and all of those but it just might end up costing you more than it is worth. They aren't usually completely powerless

Another is to just sit back and wait for maybe 3 or 4 years then sell the judgment to a judgment recovery specialist who will start doing a skip trace on you. Most debtors who dig a hole and pull it in after themselves come up for air after 3 or 4 years and a good judgment recovery specialist will uncover them and put the screws to them. I've seen that done time and time again.

I can well understand and sympathize with that feeling too. After all, it was partly the lender's fault things went south for everybody but we cannot put all the blame on bad lending practices either. Much of the blame goes to our politicians and giant corporations. Ross Perot said that if we allow our politicians and corporations to put NAFTA and GATT into effect we will hear a giant sucking sound as our jobs go south of the border and that is exactly what happened. Then those living south of the border refused to work for such low wages so the sucking sound started all over again as our jobs went to the Asian countries such as China and others. Now it is getting so those peoples don't want to work so cheaply either. Where will they go next? The rain forests or Africa, outer mongolia, lower slobovia or where?

I'm sure you and others who have the same opinions will be happy with their decisions. The way I look at it digging a hole and pulling it in after one's self isn't the best answer even if it does work some or even most of the time. It is a fairly easy path to take but there is no final resolution to the problems that way. One is simply left waiting for the axe to fall, hoping it never does. I much prefer to get a final resolution to my problems and doing what it takes to assure that the final resolution is favorable to me and most highly unfavorable and costly to them. Just like the traffic cops say, hit them in the pocketbook where it hurts the most and they won't make the same mistakes again.

 

i have already been to an attorney and have checked out all the recourse,s that they may have.i am allowed so much money in my checking account,also so much is allowed for tool,s and for transportation.as far as being ordered to pay and going to jail not probable.and last i checked no debtors prison, if so it would be full and we would be able to get some of the people in tent city some decent living quarters and better food.

 

I told you that. You didn't need a lawyer to find that out. (LOL).and last i checked no debtors prison, if so it would be full and we would be able to get some of the people in tent city some decent living quarters and better food.[/quote]I also told you that there is no such thing as debtor's prison in the U.S.A. but the results of a contempt of court citation can amount to the same thing. But then, as I said before I wouldn't worry much about that either.

As far as getting better quarters and better food goes, if you can get the voters to build a new jail every few years that might happen too. We built a new jail here in Oklahoma City a few years ago and we thought we had it made. Then the sheriff rented out about 3 floors or so for federal prisoners and a couple more for state prisoners when the state prison got too full to house them all and now he wants a new and even more expensive jail facility so he can rent out even more of our county jail. He charges prisoners $150 a day to be in the durn thing but it don't seem like that is enough to get the job done either. He spends more than $250,000 a day just to feed all the prisoners he's got now and what they get is still little more than slop 3 times a day.

He bought a fleet of new Lincoln Continentals for many of his deputies to ride around in. For the rest of them he bought another fleet of new Pontiacs for patrol cars. He can't keep deputies and his turn over rate is better than 50% per year. That means lots of extra training costs. People are dying like rats in his great new jail. It is getting scandalous indeed. The price of gasoline has gone up so much that you almost never see a sheriff's patrol car anymore whereas they were once thicker than fleas on a dog. Can't see that has made much difference in the crime rate one way or the other. We would have been as well or better off without all his new cars.

We probably would have been better off without him too even if he was chief of the International Association of Police Chiefs. (LOL)