Furious!!!

WOW! I'd be furious too if a similar situation had happened to me. Mistakes happen and you immediately made restitution. Providian closing both accounts was pretty extreme.

Believe me! I am no fan of Providian! I've written extensively here about my dealings with them. Even when I got to the executive office, the attitude was very snotty.

Good luck. I hope you'll be able to get the two accounts reopened.

Donna
don't blame you for being angry.

 

That is so awful. I would contact their Executive Offices to inquire about the situation. We have all made boo-boos concerning our checking accounts, but to close both of our credit card accounts for one bounced check...ridiculous. If they don't reply or give you some lame excuse I would pay them off and tell them to go screw themselves. No one deserves to be treated like that.

Dani

 

"In every state, writing a bad check is a crime."

http://www.nolo.com/encyclopedia/articles/dc/DC5.HTML

 

It is inaccurate to say "writing a bad check is a crime" period. Writing a check with the intent to defraud is a crime.

 

As soon as Jonesing noticed the overdraft, immediate steps were taken to rectify the situation. Providian received an electronic payment.

Any of us could make a mistake. The important thing here is that it was immediately corrected.

Greg, don't be so quick to pass judgment.

Donna

 

dave, I gave a link to the quote I used-- a well-respected authority on legal matters. Do you have any sources for your information?

Donna, I'll pass judgment whenever, about whom, how often and to what degree as I wish.

The question is: Is it a point of law, or not? The poster is "Furious!!!" with indignation, but has no cause. Providian's no angel, but they're completely within their rights to drop this person.

If this is a discussion of degrees of propriety-- let's dance. What was this person doing with Providian (not known for their lending to good credit risks), in the first place?

 

The big banks are no help either when it comes to mistakes. My account is with Centura. It was with Virginia Beach FSB, and they were bought out by Centura (a big bank wannabe). VBFSB was so good to us. Once I withdrew money at the ATM and put it in the wrong column of my checkbook (I was in a hurry). Well, when you put a withdrawal in the deposit column, it makes a super whopping booboo. I was tooling along, writing checks and stuff, and said "wow! where did all this money come from?...this isn't right..."

Went to call my bank, and they had already called me first.They said, "hey, you're overdrawn." The ending - they paid the checks, I took them some money the next morning. No chex systems, no bounced check, just a service fee, which I did not mind paying in the least. And - they gave me an overdraft LOC without a credit check so I wouldn't have to rush down there if it ever happened again. It didn't.

Centura will bounce a check for uncollected funds, charge $29 and then add on another "processing" fee. Virginia limits overdraft charges to $29 - processing fees are allowed, LOL.

Gone are the days........

breeze

 

Wow....pretty bold statement! Last time I checked we were all human!

Looking at this from another stand point, you are correct. Providian is well within their rights to do as they please. I guess what is bothersome about this incident is that Providian had no remorse. We play by their rules becuase they are lending us THEIR money. So honestly I can't be mad at them, but dang...we are human and we do make mistakes. How do you think I felt when BofA bounced a check of mine because I was less than $1 short? I was HOT!!! But I really couldn't be mad.

 

Hmmm...according to the nolo 'Expert Law Site', citing the same paragraph as you, "450 million bad checks are written every year".

According to www.census.gov, there are 284,868,407, or lets say almost 285 million people in the US.

That means, on average, every person in the USA writes almost 2 bad checks a year.

Well, you better move, mister, looks like this country is full of 'Criminals'.

God forbid someone actually make a mistake!


Shawn

 

"Donna, I'll pass judgment whenever, about whom, how often and to what degree as I wish."


Greg,

The G at the beginning of your name doesn't stand for God.

Throwing stones is easy. Offering a helping hand requires more effort and a little work.

No, I can't stop you from pontificating but all of us here can certainly challenge what you say.

Donna

 

I just got an email-- quoting my statement about judgment-- which used on of the words you can't say on television and referred to my family.

This case could have been resolved (or would not be an issue in the first place) if a very, very primary personal financial principle was followed: Save money. Continue saving money. Make sure balance in accounts always goes up, not down. Save more money.

I've talked to thousands over the years-- and that's a theme in the discussion of bad credit. No savings. Then there's the inevitable car repair or medical bill that blows the fragile budget, and we're off to the races.

 

Not defending Greg (as if he needed it, LOL) - but in my younger, more irresponsible days, I wrote a check for $3.00 to a drugstore - it bounced - one of those "try to beat the check to the bank" things.

When I got the returned check notice, I went to the store to cover the check. They didn't have it - sent me to their main office - they didn't have the check either. I tried to pay them, they wouldn't take the money.

Next thing I know, I get a call from a Richmond detective - he had a warrant for me - they pressed charges. It's a crime, even if it was a mistake, and if the person you wrote the check to wants to pursue it that way, they can have you arrested.

I had to go downtown, turn myself in - the works. Then I had to go get a lawyer and pay him to have the charges dismissed. Otherwise I would have had a criminal record. Not cool.

breeze

 

I take exception that writing a bad check is always a crime - I believe it depends on the circumstance.

Before Direct Deposit came into vogue I had an incident in which I worked for an employer, received my paycheck, deposited it on Friday, wrote my checks for bills over the weekend, only to have my employers check "bounce" the next week, subsequently causing many of my checks to bounce.

I didn't write an intentional bad check, and in no circumstances do I consider the fact my checks bounced a crime.

 

Intentional or not, they could bring charges against you if they chose to. You would then have to defend yourself. It's a fact.

I agree that mistakes are one thing and "paperhanging" another, but it still can be prosecuted as a crime if they choose.

breeze

 

OK here's the Virginia statute:

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/lst/LH204374.HTM

It gives you 5 days to make it good, from the date you receive notice that the check was not paid upon presentation for payment. After that, it is a crime.

You can check your state's statute by going to http://www.lawdog.com click on your state, click on "statutes," then, if it is a searchable database, type in "uttering" as the search term.


breeze

 

Breeze, how scary! That was one lesson you learned the hard way.

I've never bounced a check myself but I know plenty of folks who have, including one of my co-workers. No one I know has ever faced criminal charges. As long as you make the check good, and cover any related charges incurred by the company, the situation is resolved with no problems.

And, Greg, I have to agree with you about the importance of saving, saving, saving! I had to learn that lesson the hard way and now, no matter what, I faithfully put money away every month. It's amazing how fast it accumulates. Had I been saving all long, I wouldn't have found myself in the mess I was in nearly three years ago.

Donna

 

Hey Greg, thanks a lot for your help, kind words, compassion, consideration and offers or suggestions. Get off your high horse.

 

Amen to that!

My lesson was a hard one, but everything turned out okay. The lawyer was a former city prosecutor, knew everyone, he took care of it without me doing anything else.

But it does illustrate the point.

I had a friend who accidentally bounced a check at Walmart - they just redeposited it. No fee, no nothing. And they took her checks after that!

It all depends....

breeze

 

Greg--

Intent to defraud is part of the crime of writing a bad check. See, for example, the California statute:

476(a) Any person who for himself or as the agent or representative of another or as an officer of a corporation, willfully, with intent to defraud, makes or draws or utters or delivers any check, or draft or order upon any bank or depositary, or person, or firm, or corporation, for the payment of money, knowing at the time of such making, drawing, uttering, or delivering that the maker or drawer or the corporation has not sufficient funds in, or credit with said bank or depositary, or person, or firm, or corporation, for the payment of such check, draft, or order and all other checks, drafts, or orders upon such funds then outstanding, in full upon its presentation, although no express representation is made with reference thereto, is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison.

Breeze linked to the Virginia statute which contains the same requirement but also says that failure to pay the check within 5 days of receiving notice is prima facie evidence of an intent to defraud. This means that if you write a hot check that you don't repay after notice, your intent may be inferred from that fact alone but you may present evidence to show otherwise and be acquitted of the charge.