I was going to do this tomorrow as the subject matter came up in another thread...but between work and studying (for the LSAT as I'm applying to law school this fall...wish me luck) this little project was a welcommed relief! BOUNCED CHECK LAWS IN GENERAL ***state statutes differ but not remarkably so*** 1. A check written at the time of purchase of a good or service that is timely dated and given in lieu of cash if bounced is fraudelent and can be criminally prosecuted. 2. A check written to pay for goods or services received in the past bounces it is not criminally liable but can be civilly liable. 3. Post dated checks given under any circumstances are considered IOUs and are never criminally liable. 4. Third party checks depend on who knew what i.e. if A gives B a check and B endorses it to C knowing it is fraudelent then B would be criminally liable. If A gives B a check and B relies on it and endorses it to C then A is criminally liable. As you can tell by this scenario this can be somewhat difficult to prove so the best advice is never to deal in third party transactions. 5. Fraudelent intent is when one knowingly writes a worthless check. Intent has to be proved but after being noticed the check payor does not make a timely effort to cure the check payee then that could be considered adequate proof and the payor could be criminally liable. 6. Checks that are written on closed accounts. This is where state statutes can differ. As we all know there are many reasons for a bank to close an account without notice. If one had no knowledge that their account was closed at the time of presentation then there is no criminal liability. But if the merchant notices you and you do not make an effort to "cure" in a timely fashion then you could be held criminally liable. 7. Stop Pay checks. This should only be used if you have a valid complaint and have noticed the merchant in an attempt to "cure" the deficiency or you have returned the goods purchased with the check. Never ever arbitrarily stop payment on a check without grounds or you could be held criminally liable. I have posted this because I have read alot of misinformation on this subject matter in all the forums. Now the creditnetters will be the best informed of all! clc
MORE...if you make a CASH deposit for say $1,000 at your bank and they code it with the wrong account #...and you then give a $500 check to a person who goes to your bank or another branch and cashes it...YOUR NSF (NOT REALLY)~~~BANK ERROR...NO FRAUDULENT INTENT ON YOUR PART...
EXACTLY CORRECTO MUNDO, GEORGE! Bank errors is a whole other can of worms...don't get me started with compliance issues as I would really bore you and put you to sleep...lol! clc
Talk about ready to fall asleep...zzzzzzz OH BTW on the third party scenario I forgot to include if A and B are in collusion than they are both liable...but collusion is hard to prove...so if you are a business owner or a merchant or a service provider never ever cash third party checks. zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ...guess where I'm headed, mindcrime. Hope to catch up a little tomorrow. Nite, clc
Still early for me....... Been trying to get my printer print an envelope for the past 1/2 hour. Aggravating! Have a goodnight clc Don't start dreaming about checks and bouncing, now. LOL
Also what is considered a check and what is not considered a check? Sounds like a dumb question I know but I ask because it seams some outfits & even some banks think any piece of paper is a check an next thing you know you're getting hit up for all kinds of N S F fees by both parties. Another ? What is the Difference between a NFS check and a Bounced check? Again I ask what may appear as a stupid question,however I have my reasons.I don't think they know the difference so they just lump them all together and label it returned checks & start dunning you The NSF fees even when there aren't any NSF checks. This whole NSF fee thing is much abused by both the banks and the payees of checks!!!
rblues: What about a stop pay on a CA if you dispute. Is that considered notice and a right to stop pay? Ender: how about SOL and states involved? I"M Adding These Questions To Those Above - - - -- - - --- -- - - --- -- - - - - - -- What about bounced checks written to a payee who was owed nothing to begin with & the payor had no obligation to the payor in the first place? What about when another check has already been issued to the payor after the bounced check was issued? I've had people expect to collect the some money twice this way.
To all with ??s, I'm checking in on my break as I have a long night tonight with my test prep class so if there are any more questions on this I will answer them late tonight. rb...if you issue a stop pay on a check and have registered or documented a valid dispute with the payee then you are not criminally liable. Just make sure that your "dispute" is documented...even if your initial dispute is via a phone conversation follow it up in writing CRRR. ender...first determine whether the action is criminally liable or civilly liable and then refer to your state statutes to ascertain SOL. lb...a payor check (this includes echecks) must include three things to be considered a "check" the microcode that identifies the payor bank and account, proper signature of the payor and proper endorsement of the payee. as for "NSF" checks...it is not the payor bank's responsibility to determine whether the action that caused the check to bounce was criminal or civil unless the bank is the victim. if you cure a returned check with another check you should either request the return of the "nsf" check or stop pay on the first check to insure that a payee does not in fact cash two checks for the same goods or services. as many people know a check can be redeposited more than once...so be diligent and make sure this doesn't happen to you. the issue of fees for returned checks is a subject that is longer and more complex than my time permits right now. it is a state by state issue and the regulation thereof is different for each state. for example CT legislature passed a law recently prohibiting banks that do business in CT from charging returned check fees to payee non-profits...a precedent setting law and many other states are right behind them in enacting similar laws. I hope this answers all your questions thus far. On interesting note...the US banking system is the only system in the world that is paper heavy. It seems (and this is from my years at a large bank) that Americans just don't want to give up their paper check transactions. Check cards are becoming more popular but nothing near replacing paper checks. The paper check industry which is composed mainly of check printing companies, computer manufacturers and check processing equipment manufacturers is a highly profitable one. Banks spend multi-millions in this country to process and return checks. Imagine the savings if this cost could be eliminated...or more accurately...imagine how much bigger profits US banks could make! clc
Does the stuff you said about the check advance places not being able to pursue criminally apply to all states.
Office of the State Attorney: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I. Instructions for Filing a Bad Check Complaint (for Palm Beach County, Florida) In order to file a complaint, these steps must be followed: 1. For returned checks marked "NSF" or "Insufficient Funds," you must first send by certified mail, a "Notice of Dishonored Check" (see Seven-Day Notice) to the person who signed the check at the address which appears on the check. This notice informs the issuer that you have had their check returned and that you are requesting payment for the returned check. If the certified notice is accepted and restitution is not made, wait 7 days from the date the certified notice is received before filing your complaint with our office. If the check writer does not accept the notice, bring it unopened with you when you file your complaint. 2. For returned checks stamped "Account Closed", you do not have to send the certified letter or wait for 7 days. Go to Step 4. 3. For checks returned for any other reason, contact our office at 561/355-7110. 4. Complete the Criminal Complaint for Worthless Check form (available from this office). Incomplete or partially completed complaints cannot be accepted. Have the person who took the check from the writer fill in and sign the second page of the complaint form. His/her signature must be notarized. Notary service is available in our office. 5. Bring with you the original checks, completed forms, 7-day Notice (if applicable) and any other papers that will help explain or document your case. 6. In order for the State Attorney's Office to file formal charges, you must provide the identity of the defendant. You must provide race, sex, date of birth, height, weight, eye color, hair color and Florida driver's license number of the check writer. In the event you happened to accept an out of state drivers license please provide the state in which it was issued and the date of birth. Additionally, the taker of the check must initial the check. 7. A witness must be available to testify that the check has never been paid. List both this person and the person who accented the check as witnesses. II. Case Guidelines 1. Cases in which the check was received by mail will not be accepted. 2. Postdated checks or checks that were asked to be held until funds become available will not be accepted as they are considered promissory notes by law. 3. Cases will not be prosecuted in which the property or goods which are the subject of the complaint have been recovered. 4. This office only handles checks which were passed in Palm Beach County. Any checks you may have which are not listed in this criteria please contact this office at 561/355-7110. 5. Stolen checks or checks which you believe to be a forgery should be referred to the Police Department in the juristiction in which the crime occurred. 6. The warrants division of the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office will not serve any case which does not prove a complete physical description of the check writer. 7. There is no fee to the victim for filing a Criminal Complaint. 8. All checks must be processed through the bank. III. Check List 1. Before bringing in your complaint to the Office of the State Attorney, please verify you have provided this office with all documentation to file formal charges by checking off the below check list items: a. You have submitted all identification of the defendant, race, sex, date of birth, height, weight, eye color, hair color and Florida driver's license number. b. 7 day certified mail notice (green card if defendant signed for it, or unopened envelope if returned unclaimed by person.) c. Original Check(s) or copies of check front and back. d. 2nd page of the complaint affidavit must be signed by the taker of the check and have his or her signature notarized before a notary. e. If you are submitting a rent check, please bring the signed lease if available. ------------------------------------------------------- FILING A COMPLAINT DOES NOT GUARANTEE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OR RESTITUTION
1*this is only a claim. It does not prove there was a NSF check. 2*What other reason would there be other than NSF ? 3*Testimoney may or may not be true. 4*What about items claimed to be checks but aren't? Through what bank? Am I responsible for bounced checks on checking accounts other than my own? I've had demand made on me to make good on items that weren't checks. And on checks never presented to my bank for payment. 5*What about demand for payment on doctored photo copies, What protection do I have against that?
lb- I was in banking for 14 years and I never heard of a case where someone was pursued for a bounced check on an account that was in fact not theirs. Now I'm not saying it never happens or it didn't happen to you I'm just saying that I've never seen or heard of it. In that same vein I also never saw or heard of a bank cashing a photocopy of a check. This is in fact illegal and if it happened to you I would pursue it legally. I might also add that the equipment, microcoder readers, would not be able to process a photocopied check and that in itself would kick it out of any sophisticated banking deposit system. John- Thank you for the post re:laws in PB County as it was a good illustration of my point re: closed accounts. In many other states it is required to notice the check issuer before taking legal action in order to give them a chance to cure. Unfortunately there are times where a bank will close an account arbitrarily without noticing the depositor. Hope this answers some more questions...back to my logic games (more like logic torture!). clc
