Hello All- Any advice or assistance would greatly be appreciated. Background: I was in the Navy and re-enlisted after four years. My re-enlistment was for 6 years. Well I did not get through the entire second term. The thing is that they gave me a re-enlistment bonus. It was paid half up front and the other half was divided by six and paid yearly. Now they (Defense Finance and Accounting Service) are trying to get some of their money back...$6000 or so. Eek! Well I am not arguing that they gave it to me...but I did not *sign* anything saying I would pay them back if I did not fulfill my duties...blah blah blah. I ordered a copy of my military record and went through EVERY page. Not one thing about paying them back--nothing even close. This is now in the hands of a law firm collection agency (Linebarger, Goggan, Blair & Sampson LLP) So, I sent them a 'validation' letter requesting ...", competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature." And guess what they sent? A stupid printout of how they calculated the bonus recoupment. Also, a letter was attached stating ..."enclosed is a copy of previous correspondence or documentation that explains the reason for the debt. Please continue collection activity on this account." This obviously was sent from DFAS to the law firm and forward to me. I am in San Diego CA and the law firm is in Texas. What can I do now? Send another letter? I spoke with the law firm this morning and told them this was not good enough and that I wanted something more substantial and not merely a printout. I also told them that I would follow up with another letter stating my request. He just kept telling me that if I kept avoiding them that the IRS would take my money after nine months. Also, he mentioned that since this was the Military--that certain rules/laws did not apply!! He did not say that straight out, but more or less hinted at it! Is this true? Please help me- Chloe
Did your reenlistment contract include terms regarding your bonus, or terms regarding repayment if you did not serve out your term? The fact that payments were spread out implies that you were paid when your right to that part of the bonus was vested. Does your contract say otherwise? Although the government may have ways of collecting not available to the usual CA, as implied by this attorney, that does not relieve a CA from their requirements to comply with federal law. When they are working through a CA or private attorney, those parties may still be required to comply with the usual FDCPA and FCRA requirements. There appear to be attorneys with experience in military contract related issues (such as those handling recent cases of forced recall of discharged veterans). You may want to contact one. If they are trying to get repayment of your bonus beyond what is specifically spelled out in your contract, you might also contact your congressman. Since Federal agencies are required to answer inquiries from congressmen in specified time periods (they hate this), you might get faster results this way than the usual validation requests that are apparently being brushed off.
The attorny for DFAS is correct. The same rules do not apply. This is an employment contract issue. The attorney may fall under the FDCPA but has provided validation as to that you owe. I am assuming you where seperated due to your own fault. That means you did not meet the terms and conditions of your contract. The military pro-rated your bonus and figured out that they over paid you and said this is what you need to pay back. They are also correct that DFAS will just garnish your tax returns. As for validation, dont bother both the military and you have copies of your re-up contract and your discharge papersm, and the bonus calculations. Thats all they need.
Definition of debt..... So is the consensus that since I am dealing with a Govt Agency via a CA...that they do NOT to provide proof of this debt beyond the itemized printout? I have my entire military record and ordered an 'official' microfiche copy as well. Nothing in the re-enlistment papers (or anywhere else)state that I would pay them back if I failed to complete the next 4 years. I do understand how they are coming up with the $5922, but I don't believe they should be able to take it back. So pls don't give me grief...I need ammo to unload on them for the next round of letters. also- from what I have been reading from previous posts by Butch and MovingOnUp regarding defintion of 'debt'. *quote* MovingOnUp: I was reading the FDCPA and I took the section: DEBT VALIDATION to mean OBLIGATION VALIDATION. i.e. (5) The term "debt" means any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes, whether or not such obligation has been reduced to judgment. Now from contract law, to get to the point where a party of a contract is 'obligated' a lot of things have to happen: 1) offer and acceptance, 2)meeting of minds, 3) promise for a promise .... etc. I would think that to verify, validate a debt all that has to be established is if all the conditions of a contractual obligation have been met. *quote* Butch: You're exactly right Movin. There DOES need to be all components present before an agreement exists, and unless the agreement does exist then there's no agreement, no meeting of the minds, NO OBLIGATION to repay. If the OC is stupid enough to give you a loan without your promise to repay it then it's just too bad for them. Here's the problem. Obviously you know we live in a country of law, not men. We live in a contract oriented country. To complete the contract a mechanism is already in place that is presumed to establish the fact that a "meeting of the minds" did in fact occur. Your Signature Lack of a signature is presumed to mean no meeting of the minds occurred. That's why we want that signature in validation. "The device containing my signature that makes me liable, (obligated)". ________________________________ Everyone's thoughts??
Definition of debt..... Payment of money can be considered as evidence that there was a contract, possibly oral, but unlike a CC revolving account, where repayment of the principal can be assumed, this was clearly not a loan. Nor would the government likely make a verbal contract. What document outlines that a bonus would be paid, or that the payments would be spread out over time? Does that document include any other terms? Have you contacted your congressman?
