My father died last month, my mother has moved in with me and we several calls from medical collections on the balances. Social Secuirty denied my mother any of my fathers benifits because they were never married. My parents lived together for 53yrs, purchased a house and filed with the IRS as married all this time. I never new they never married, until now. Anyways the CA has transfered my dads bills to my mothers name. We got home and opened the monthly bill they used to send to my father in his name but now it has my mothers name only. any help would be appricated. lg
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake Although I cannot answer your question, I want to say I am very sorry for your father's death. It's bad enough to go through a death in the family, it is made even worse by bill collectors showing up soon after.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake As far as the marriage goes and collecting social security. Most states used to have what is called a common law marriage. If two people held themselves ut as married, the state recognized them as married. Most states have done away with this, but an older marriage will still be recognized. You need to pursue that.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake in the state of california they don't reconize common law marriages. not sure when they started not to?? wish i knew more about it. any help would be appriciated....
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake lg, What state does your mother live in? Is that the state they have always lived in?
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake My mother has been a housewife and now has no income. I'm thinking of her to file BK. I wished the hospital would pay for everything since they took his life, thats another horror story.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake Someone else pointed this out, but since California does not recognize common law marriages, how can the CA stick your mother with the debt? If they can get away with this, but the government does not have to pay survivor SS benefits to your mom, then the system is screwed up (more than usual, even), and needs to be fixed.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake I am sorry to hear about the death of your father. It would seem that either your parents can be considered married or they can't. If the SSA says that they weren't, how can bill collectors transfer the bills to your Mom? They might as well transfer them to me or you. (To any collection agencies reading this -- Just kidding. We don't want the bills transfered to our names.) More to my point, even if your Mom winds up able to qualify for SS, I believe that I read on the collectors forum (taken from a link posted here) that it is difficult to get SS attached for payment of bills. You might want to consult an attorney or a legal services clinic run through a local law school. Also, many prominent law firms offer pro bono (read free) services to people who fall under a certain income level. Your Mom w/ no income would probably qualify although obviously I don't know her assets.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake my mother was dependent on his income for 53 years. SSA says they will not forward any monies to her. so if the goverment wont then why should anyone try to get there money from my mother??
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake I wasn't gonna say anything else, since I couldn't help in the beginning, but MandyB is right about the law stuff. Is there any way you can get a lawyer, or someone with good legal background who will walk through this with you? I'm thinking that statement you made about the hospital and his death would warrant a lawyer anyway!!! I really wish you luck in this.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake I agree, this is an issue for a lawyer who specializes in social security issues. Did your folks file joint tax returns? If so, then the government has already recognized their marriage. There are too many issues here to be analyzed by us laiety. Please seek the advice of wise counsel.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake So sorry for your loss. I would just send the CA's C&D letters, then proceed to ignore them every way possible. Hang up on them if they call, get an answering machine so you don't answer (like we all do with telemarketing calls). At this point there is absolutely nothing they can do to her. If they are doing anything to her (I can't think what they could do that would harm her at this point) you can always sue them. I know you would much rather take care of her situation with SS, so just concentrate on that.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake When my gf mom died last year, we were left with the task of sorting out her parents' bills etc. (Her dad is still alive but he has dimensia.) Well imagine her surprise when a bill from MBNA rolled in the month after her mom died. A Visa bill to the tune of $12,000!!!! She had no idea her mom carried that kind of credit. Well it was an individual account--didn't have her dad's name on it. So we called MBNA and informed them that she had died. We mailed them a copy of the death certificate and that was that. I think the CA is isn't acting within the law. If this account was designated as an individual account, and the SSA has certified that your parents were not married and indeed, they were not, then the CA has no legal basis for assigning the debt to your mom.
Re: Tell them to jump in a lake Some more thoughts. Even if California does not now recognize common law marriages, they may have in the past, and if so, your parents marriage may be grandfathered in. If they lived part of their "married" life in another state, the law of that state may apply. Each state recognizes the marriages of the other states, so if it is valid in one state, it is valid in every state. Older people are easily intimidated by these collectors. If they call, just say she does not live there and they should not call again. I dealt with this with a relative, and he was totally overwhelmed by these people calling. We thought it would kill him. So, we told them all that he had moved and left no forwarding address. I think the others here are right - you need to see an attorney who specializes in social security issues. There is usually one around who used to work for SS and knows all the ins and outs. Right now, I think the companies are taking the attitude that it doesn't hurt to try. They have no one else to get the money from, so they will at least give a try to getting it from your mother. I think a lot of people would pay in these circumstances because they felt it was the right thing to do. If you show them their tactics will not work, then I think they will go away. Incidently, the "right thing to do" is to let the creditors take the loss. They loaned him the money and they took the risk. If they wanted your mother to be responsible, they should have gotten her to sign on the dotted line. Do your best to protect her from their calls because dealing with them will cause all kinds of emotional distress for her. When I did it for my father in law, all their crap meant nothing to me because I didn't care. I wasn't responsible and there was nothing they could say or do to upset me. After a while, you will learn what really ticks them off, so you can ruin their day.
CA Family Code FAMILY.CODE SECTION 297 I am not a lawyer but I found this on http://my.ca.gov/state/portal/myca_homepage.jsp under consumers and family. Take a look at "Joint responsibility" is this still valid if the couple did not filed a Declaration of Domestic Partnership? IMHO I believe that if a Declaration of Domestic Partnership is not filed you are just two people living together and you are not responsible for his debt. I think, I hop. 297. (a) Domestic partners are two adults who have chosen to share one another's lives in an intimate and committed relationship of mutual caring. (b) A domestic partnership shall be established in California when all of the following requirements are met: (1) Both persons have a common residence. (2) Both persons agree to be jointly responsible for each other's basic living expenses incurred during the domestic partnership. (3) Neither person is married or a member of another domestic partnership. (4) The two persons are not related by blood in a way that would prevent them from being married to each other in this state. (5) Both persons are at least 18 years of age. (6) Either of the following: (A) Both persons are members of the same sex. (B) One or both of the persons meet the eligibility criteria under Title II of the Social Security Act as defined in 42 U.S.C. Section 402(a) for old-age insurance benefits or Title XVI of the Social Security Act as defined in 42 U.S.C. Section 1381 for aged individuals. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, persons of opposite sexes may not constitute a domestic partnership unless one or both of the persons are over the age of 62. (7) Both persons are capable of consenting to the domestic partnership. (8) Neither person has previously filed a Declaration of Domestic Partnership with the Secretary of State pursuant to this division that has not been terminated under Section 299. (9) Both file a Declaration of Domestic Partnership with the Secretary of State pursuant to this division. (c) "Have a common residence" means that both domestic partners share the same residence. It is not necessary that the legal right to possess the common residence be in both of their names. Two people have a common residence even if one or both have additional residences. Domestic partners do not cease to have a common residence if one leaves the common residence but intends to return. (d) "Basic living expenses" means shelter, utilities, and all other costs directly related to the maintenance of the common household of the common residence of the domestic partners. It also means any other cost, such as medical care, if some or all of the cost is paid as a benefit because a person is another person's domestic partner. (e) "Joint responsibility" means that each partner agrees to provide for the other partner's basic living expenses if the partner is unable to provide for herself or himself. Persons to whom these expenses are owed may enforce this responsibility if, in extending credit or providing goods or services, they relied on the existence of the domestic partnership and the agreement of both partners to be jointly responsible for those specific expenses.
