Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned I want to repost with bold the paragraph from Professor Manning's testimony on Capitol Hill in 2001 ==================================== Furthermore, by focusing on the lifestyle enhancements that credit cards offer to â??mature â??students, public attention has been directed away from the social problems that have emerged from their unprecedented expansion over the last decade. These include physical maladies (from anxiety, excessive smoking and drinking, depression), parental authority conflicts, loss of scholarships due to extra jobs for monthly payments (low grades), job rejection, denial of auto and home mortgage loans, rejection for student loans for graduate and professional school, decline of apartment rental applications, increasing defaults on federal student loans, and, in the most extreme cases, student suicides; the latter was recently reported in a Sixty Minutes II program (www.cbs.com and www.creditcardnation.com). Not incidentally, the sharp increase in consumer debt among college students has defied the recent decline in consumer bankruptcies; last year, the number of bankruptcy filers 25 years old or younger jumped to nearly 150,000. In view of the enormous increase in consumer credit offered to college students and the ongoing slowdown in the U.S. economy, the experiences of recent college graduates offers instructive insights into industry responsibility in the rapidly growing group of bankruptcy files ===================================== can anyone imagine the sadness of the family of the student who commited suicide because of credit card debt!!! These predatory practices of credit card grantors must stop...blame the kids all you want...but don't tell me that the credit granting group doesn't know exactly what they are doing when they give these kids credit cards. And I sure would like to know the gargantuan difference between an 18 year old and a 17 year old??? All I can say is if you have kids going off to college...beware...as even the colleges are making money from marketing to these kids. My opinion backed up with facts... clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Scott: Doc has indeed proven himself here time and time again. His input is invaluable because of his experience. Let his credibility speak for itself. (credibility: good word for this forum, dont you think?) On other issues, I'm not going to detail things out or bump up posts from days of yore but suffice it to say that things are not always as they are painted. Now, how about on with the credit discussion?
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned I think my posts speak for themselves...any person reading this thread with 2 beth cells working synchronously will see that what you said about my comment to nanac are hogwash...I didn't make public her comments to me via private email because why bother to keep stirring it up...everyone here has a right to an opinion and I WILL defend their right to it whether I agree with them or not... I really don't care whether you interact with me or not...that is your decision...but I think it is obvious that you are being petty... JMO....... clc PS...oh and a "I'm sorry" for posting an inaccuracy about you...is beneath you???
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Oh I guess the formula for credibility is: "credibility=time spent as member on creditnet" I'm sorry I just don't buy that....they are alot of newbies here who have credibility on their life experiences.... I think this discussion on granting young people credit is a valid one...lots of people here have children who will be facing this problem....and should be made aware of the dangers that are lurking on college campuses rere-approved credit cards...there is even a bill in congress to stop this predatory practice...so I'm not blowing smoke here. let people decide for themselves what is "credible" and what is not "credible"....or is that not allowed here? clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Well golly gee whiz, this thread is completely OT now... I think the summer heat has made all of us cranky! However I was cranky about the chargeoff issue before the heat <g>.... So if we can return to our regularly scheduled bickering...er.. I mean debate...<g>............ Ozzy.
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Oh for cryin' out loud, let it go. You're trying to make your point (and your point is certainly valid) but you keep rehashing the same thing... over and over. I understand that things got kinda out of whack over the last few days (I'm still catching up on what all I missed in some other threads), but every time you bring it up, it just starts things up again, kwim? Opinions are not only respected here, they are encouraged! One of the things I love about this board is the diversity of the people who frequent it. There's always some thought-provoking dialogue goin' on! I may not agree with it, but I sure as heck enjoy it - and learn from it too! That's why I contributed to this thread - it hit a chord with me and apparently it hit a chord with many other people too. Interesting, isn't it, what one simple post can inspire in us. We're a passionate bunch! Ozzy.
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Oh crap, here I go again... but these 'kids' are 18 plus. They are in college. They are living on their own. In some states, they are legal to drink. They can go to war. Yet, I get the impression that you think that they may need protected from credit card companies. Maybe they should be protected from checking accounts too since they can overdraw them. Or maybe they shouldn't drive since they can break the speed limit or run a stop sign. I'm gonna try to maintain my composure here, but when the hell are people gonna stand up and take responsibility for their own actions? If someone gets into cc debt, be it a college student or a 76 year old woman, they have no one to blame but themselves. (been there myself). Yes, there are always extenuating circumstances - job loss, etc. But if someone has one ounce of common sense, it only stands to reason that if you have no job or extremely limited resources and have the propensity to spend, duh??!!! Maybe a credit card isn't for you at that particular time in your life. Especially now, since debit cards are readily available for purchases. Credit card companies are out to make money. No doubt about it. But suggesting that college kids need protected from them (legislation pending or not) is because parents have not taught their kids how to be responsible with money. It's always that the schools aren't teaching the kids about something... well, hello??!!! as a parent it's your job, your responsbility to warn your children of the hazards of the world, be it credit card debt, drugs, STD's, whatever. Okay, I need to blow off this thread for a bit...... Ozzy.
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Ozzy- Let me quote myself....and also point out that this was post #52 on this thread ----------------------------------------------------------- I think that this topic has been beat to death...can't we just agree to disagree??? Religion, politics and raising kids....all 3 controversial topics... clc ------------------------------------------------------------ I have apologized...a general one to everybody and a specific one to a person....only to be slam-dunked..... I have ignored...I have defended myself.... I agree with scott...as far as I'm concerned this whole "flame" is a bullying tactic... I have tried to put this thread on topic...credit cards to college kids......all to no avail. And since I think this topic is worthwhile...I will revisit it...as others have thanked me privately. clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned don't feel bad Doc, I offered almost the same advice and no one made one single comment. I did read your whole post and thoroughly agree with you. I don't know why everyone is getting so fluffed up about it. I think we should all just calm down, sit back, and knock down a cold one.
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Well I stayed away for like 10 minutes...<g>... CLC I wasn't suggesting you not post or share your thoughts! . I wasn't suggesting you not give your opinion - please do not take it that way. I am just stating that I disagree with you. That's all. It's called a discussion. A debate. A chat. A meeting of the minds. <g> You seem to be a very sensitive person (that nurturing thing!) and if my passion on this particular topic offended you that wasn't my intention - I was just stating my position and would love to continue this conversation with you and anyone else who cares to chime in. Ozzy.
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned While I still feel the attacks are not comletely justified (I do suppose I could have missed a thread in the past though), I never said it is bullying. Being bullyied is when the big kid picks on the defenseless little kid for no apparant reason. It looks to me that your more then capable of defending yourself, and they obviously have a reason. Also, if 18 year olds are not responsilbe enought to handle credit where do you draw the line? How about 33? A little too old? I think some people are more then responsible enough at age 14, but others will never have a responsible moment in their life. Unfortionately we can't say you can get credit at age 18, but you have to wait until your 37. In this case I think it was better he got the credit early and screwed up early (if you all remember what the original topic was). Now in 5 years when he has a career his credit will show that he has been responsible for all these years, and at still a relatively young age. Learn from your mistakes, just hope you make them early enough that you can actually benefit from the lesson. scott
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Ozzy, I don't know about you...but I have entertained a house full of 18, 19 & 20 year olds in my time...and I have to say "common sense" was not always one of their strong suits. The predatory practices of credit granting companies on college campuses has been studied and reported to congress on by Professor Manning...who did an in-depth study of the problem. I don't say these kids do it with bad intentions...but the "lure" of easy credit in this consumer consumptive society is likened to drugs....they start out small...and then with credit line increases and more pre-approved cards these kids find themselves in way over their head. I think giving kids who have no viable income except maybe minimum wage jobs to help defray expenses while in college unsecured credit cards is immoral...and given the fact that a bill was introduced in congress specifically aimed at this...I'm not alone in my opinion. When I was in college....no way did credit card companies issue credit cards to us....this was a practice that was started in the early 90s...a conscience effort on the credit card companies to "hook" into these kids. I have posted Professor Manning's testimony site many times in this thread...if you have free time you should read it....he goes into details with 2 lengthy case studies...and I am sure there are many people here who have stated "my troubles started in college...I was dumb, I know"....who will identify with these stories. I made a conscience effort when my girls went off to college to dissuade them from getting credit cards...even threatening to cut off their allowance from me if they did....they didn't like that then...but now when they listen to the credit disaster stories of their friends...they thank me....it is amazing how parents get smarter and smarter as their kids get older...lol. So I have never had to deal with these issues....but I understand and feel compassion for people that do...yes it was dumb and irresponsible...but I don't think it makes them criminals...they deserve to be helped and supported in their quest to "get it right" with the "credit" mainstream. For all those who have supported me privately...let me thank you publicly. clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned scott- your right...I paraphrased and put words in your mouth you didn't say...Please accept my sincere apology for that. I really don't understand WHY I have to defend myself here...I think I know why...but I will keep my opinions as to why to myself as they would serve no useful purpose here. clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned clc18940, My opinion, You are a newbie that hasn't even been on this board a month, yet you slam one of the most respected members of this board. Doc will help anyone and has a whole lotta respect from the board members. I would, if your personality will let you, lurk more and say less. You were "gun ho" for a newbie to be kicked off the board for slamming GEORGE. I hope you don't take this post negatively. I don't mean it to be. Charlie
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Kids commit suicide for every reason in the world. Even having zits... Charlie
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned charlie- the newbie who attacked GEORGE used terms like "tired of his crap"..."G is an a**hole"....and when I defended G he called me a "m**********r" now I really don't think we have a perfect analogy here...I have not resorted to calling anyone names in this thread... I guess the issue of morality and credit cards to college age people is being completely ignored...it seems everyone is more interested in personality conflict....<<<sigh>>> clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned I've been reading this, and don't see anywhere where the issue has been ignored, and in fact in places has been discussed by several members. The fact is that at some point "kids" are going to have to stop being coddled, and protected, and make mistakes. If not at 18, then when? We send 18 year olds off to fight our wars, but don't trust them with credit cards? Much of the problem lies in not teaching kids at home what credit is about, and how it should or shouldn't be used. I know because no one ever taught me, and I learned the hard way, but never used fraud as Did Eric to get credit. Additionally I also don't see anywhere here where you clc are being flamed. Its obvious that you never read Docs initial posts, and I guess he got a little frustrated, and quite frankly i don't blame him.
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned Okay forget about the suicide....what Dr. Manning is saying here (bold for emphasis): Not incidentally, the sharp increase in consumer debt among college students has defied the recent decline in consumer bankruptcies; last year, the number of bankruptcy filers 25 years old or younger jumped to nearly 150,000. In view of the enormous increase in consumer credit offered to college students and the ongoing slowdown in the U.S. economy, the experiences of recent college graduates offers instructive insights into industry responsibility in the rapidly growing group of bankruptcy files is that the driving force behind the Bankruptcy Reform bill is the credit card companies....and yet their predatory practices have actually caused the problems....sorta' rewarding the fox for killing the hens...dontcha' think? This is the topic that I'm trying to drive home here...protecting college age students and seniors (Dr. Manning includes them in his treatise) from predatory lending practices. clc
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned I was listening to Suze Orman on her radio show, and she was telling a young 20 something person that it is better to learn about the pitfalls of credit cards at a young age than in your 40's or 50's. IT IS part of growing up. Charlie
Re: Help!! Resp 4 Credit B4 Turned you are ever so right charlie. Unfortunately many people want to either have everyone else take responsibility for their kids, or for their own stupidity. Just look at the guy who sued the tobacco company because he was dying...many people want someone else to take responsibility for their own stupidity. Quite frankly you have to learn sooner or later.
