My HOA is taking me to court (14 Mar). I tried to negotiate with them but they want all or none. From what I understand they can foreclose. The amount is in excess of 3k. I've never been to court before. What to do? I will be prepared with 50% of the debt, but not 100%. A little history: I was in chp 13 twice and recently dismissed, but did not covert to ch 7, so they are coming after me for the fees plus attorney fees for the past years.
It's in the CC&Rs that the homeowners sign at the time of closing. All HOAs have that in their CC&Rs, both as a way to encourage people to pay their monthly assessments or fines and to use as a last resort, and also because the VA and FHA loans for homes within an HOA can't be completed unless there is that ability. As an HOA board member and homeowner, that's a very familar clause. In 32 years, our HOA has never forclosed on a home. have you been in touch with the HOA regarding the monies before they threatned to foreclose? Is the money due for past-due monthly assessments or fines? What was the timeline between non-payment and filing foreclosure? The reason I'm asking these questions is it's become a big issue in AZ and I'm trying to see how other HOAs handle these situations. Thanks and good luck - Kate
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement Yes I did contact them. Since I'm just coming out of a chp 13 and did not want to convert to a chp 7, I thought I could work something out with them. I wrote the board a very human letter explaining the circumstances the caused the delinquency. Basically they don't want to hear it. I was told by their attorney's office that they are really cracking down on this particular community. Apparently their is a high delinqency rate. My biggest concern at this point is what happens at this type of court. Will the judge grant them the judgement if I don't have all the money on the day of court. OR will the judge allow some time (maybe 30 days) for me to come up with the money. If so would a judgement still be issued or is that considered settled. Any idea how the court stuff works.
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement Unfortunatly I can only speak to the HOA part, not the court part. It's unfortunate that you're getting the sticky end of the stick because of other persons prior bad acts. I wish you all the best, and hopefully others on the board will jump in. Kate
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement IrishDiva ==================== So basically you forfeit your home to The HOA even though you don't owe them any money for it.and the bank gets screwed out of their collateral Why would a bank grant a loan and give the rights to the security to another?? The END ************************* LB 59
Believe me, they often can and they will. In my state, Calif., they do not even have to go to court to get a lien on your property. This is not lien that will just sit on your property until you sell, you don't pay the lien, foreclosure proceedings will be commenced. BG, HOA's are regulated by state laws, so what they can and can't do depends on your state. If you live in California, I can give you the link to the civil code. Otherwise, you can do a search by checking your states civil code. BG, I highly recommend you talk to a lawyer in your state. You don't want to show up at court and have your rights explained to you then, it could get ugly. Also, your lawyer will be able to, if possible, find some "stall" tactics for you. Most HOA's have lawyers who "freely" offer their services, at least in regards to liens and foreclosures. The lawyers know if you don't pay the debt, they can foreclose on your house. This has been quite lucrative for many lawyers handling liens. The more equity in your home, the more $$ for the lawyer. Don't mean to scare you BG, but I highly suggest you consult with a lawyer.
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement It's in the documentation provided to the homeowner that if assessments which help maintain and improve the area and increase their property values are not paid, and arrangements are not made, that this can occur. People need to read what they're signing, and this needs to also be made VERY clear when they're closing and signing all kinds of documents. And the HOAs have a responsibility to try to work with the homeowner and not just boot them out. In AZ we have to go to court to obtain a foreclosure and we have to demonstrate the HOA had done everything possible to work with the homeowner. I'm not saying every HOA is pure as the driven snow, but people need to read what they're signing. Ignorance is no excuse. If people don't like HOAs or the fact that if they don't pay the assessments they AGREED TO in writing, then they need to not purchase a home in an HOA. Kate
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement And the preceeding message is not a slam against you or anyone else on the board, rather it's my response to LBrown. My program at work does not allow me to e-mail anyone from the board - only to post the message.
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement Last summer, my HOA filed a lien against my property. They did not give notice of their intention to file a lien (violation #1). They included parking fines in their lien (violation #2, can't include fines). I paid the lien off 100% under protest, they sent a follow-up they will be foreclosing in thirty days if I don't pay an additional amount. Know what the additional amount was, next months dues (due in 45 days from the letter) plus a parking fine I was assessed the same day they sent the foreclosure letter. Irishdiva, my hoa are a bunch of **jerks**. I can assure you I have read all my policies regarding CCC&R's. AND if I did not have to take care of dh's parents, I can ASSURE YOU I would not be living in this tract, which I have made abundantly clear to my HOA. Unfortunatley, life happens, dh's dad is a little crazy, and dh and I have had to step into the picture in the last few years and manage everything for them, when everything is on the brink of foreclosure, repossesion, you name it. Yes, this includes an HOA that has put my dh's dad home into foreclosure over 4 times.
Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement I don't doubt for a minute that there are sucky HOAs - a lady at work is moving for just that reason. I'm fortunate that where I live the HOA is reasonable, but I and the rest of the board members and the VPO have worked very hard to keep it that way. We have owners that bought in the very first year who remain active and believe me, they keep us on our toes!
BG My wife is the Pres. Of our condo association and has had to deal with similar situations. Hopefully I can help a little here. I am assuming the money you owe them is for association fees/dues (fines might be handled differently). The HOA typically has the absolute right and responsibility to collect the money for all dues and assessments. If you are in arrears, they can slap a lien on your unit and you will not be able to sell it until you pay them. They are typically in â??first positionâ?, ahead of even your mortgage company. If you still donâ??t pay, they can sell your unit for whatever price they can obtain at the time, take the money you owe them + all legal costs, and give you what is left after the mortgage company, 2nd mtg., other liens, etc. Kate gave you some good insight on why the HOA can do this. Usually (not always), the CC&Rs will spell out how long they will allow you to be in arrears before they file the lien, how many â??noticesâ? they serve you before they file lien, and how long they will wait before they order a sale. I donâ??t know in your case if going to court is a formality (to cover the board members) or if they even have to go to court to foreclose. If you donâ??t have a copy of your CC&Rs handy, get a set ASAP and review them until you understand what they say. Typically, the last thing the HOA wants to do is sue an owner because of the legal expense (which ultimately you will usually have to pay), the unpaid time of theirs that it sucks up, and the potential increased alienation between the owners. However, they have an absolute DUTY to protect the other owners and their property. Unfortunately, you do sometimes find a board comprised of revengeful horseâ??s butts (hope you donâ??t). That being said, this is what I might suggest considering: 1. Go over all of the notices that have been â??servedâ? on you. Note the dates â?? look for a lien that may have been filed. They must follow the current law, regardless of what their CC&Rs give them the right to do. They may not have filed a lien if they knew you were in bankruptcy (you may need some legal advice here). 2. Accept the fact that all the money you owe them will have to be paid if you want to keep your condo â?? the sooner the better! 3. If you are still under a Chapter 13 plan, you may need to have the courtâ??s permission to borrow money to pay the HOA, or to sell off any assets you donâ??t absolutely need to survive. Hopefully you have a BK attorney to counsel you here. Then do whatever you legally can to raise the money. 4. Since an attorney represents the HOA, you will probably have to deal with their attorney now, instead of the members of the HOA. Contact him/her (not their â??legal assistant") on your best behavior and explain that you are able to give them $xxxx now and the full balance within yyyy days. More than $3,000 in arrears means you have probably been in debt to the HOA for some time (you said years?), so you plan will have to be sincere and DOABLE. It would be best all around if there is any way you can pay it all off now. 5. The attorney must present this offer to the HOA, and they will decide whether to accept it or not. Most attorneys want to settle if it is doable. Unless the board members are fools (or if you have really pissed them off and they want to make an example of you), they should still be willing to work with you â?? they donâ??t really want to take a day off work to testify in court or to go through the hassle of eviction and foreclosure! Remember that it is their DUTY to protect the collective owners AND act in their best behalf. They donâ??t want you or ANOTHER OWNER suing the HOA and them personally for their being unreasonable in their actions. 6. If you are not ABSOLUTELY comfortable in offering your settlement proposal to their attorney â?? RETAIN COUNSEL to do it for you. If you are absolutely broke, you may find that legal aid might be available to represent you in this matter â?? check at the courthouse. Be sure to get the repayment agreement in writing and signed. If there is a lien in place, the agreement should specify how and when it will be released. Follow up and make sure the Lien Release does get filed after the debt is retired. 7. If you got to this step, do everything you can to stay current with them in the future. Be a good neighbor and enjoy your home! _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ *** Now the fine print: Remember, I am NOT an attorney and cannot give you legal advice. The above information is my personal opinion based on my experience and is NOT intended to be implied as legal advice in any way, shape, or form. If you feel you need legal advice, do consult an attorney well versed in your situation.*** Hope this helps you keep your condo BG ) BKinUT
Re: Re: Re: Homeowners Assoc. filed judgement PARKING FINES??? They are a HIGHWAY PATROL, SHERIFF, or POLICE agency???
Thats interesting - and frightening. I thought Tax Liens were the only liens that could jump to first position.
This has been a very insightful thread! I must admit that after reading this thread, I am more motivated to move into a nice neighborhood that doesn't have an HOA. Seems like too much trouble. lol
Regardig HOA's, from bad experience, I would say this: DON'T GET ON THEIR BAD SIDE----> You can get along great with your neighbors, but don't tick the BOARD off or the management company. The BOARD has the power, not your neighbors. If your HOA has members that can be perceived as Bullies, don't fight it. When they ask for your "lunch money", just give it to them. They fine you for something, quickly "fix the problem", and pay the fine. Whatever the situation, THEY WILL WIN-----> The law is on their side, THEY ARE THE LAW. Think of them as "quasi Indian Reservations." By way of CC&R's and bylaws, they can create whatever laws they want and enforce these "laws" as the BOARD sees fit. Government does not like to intervene in HOA's, **very tough** to take undertake a successful legal action against them. BE A SHEEP-----> Not a thought I am comfortable with, but you don't want to be viewed as the "problem" in the BOARDS eyes, when it comes to HOA's, I would much prefer to seen as a "sheep" than THE BLACK SHEEP. Renegade attitudes and "fight back with David Horowitz" people have their place, don't try this stuff with your BOARD. Stick with your own.....if you are in a community where most of the neighborhood is in the 60's and you are in your 20's, not good. If you move into an HOA, you will be just fine as long as you don't get the BOARD or Management company angry with you. In all fairness, DH (mostly) and I have antagonized the management company, and occasionally the Board, and WHEW, what a price to pay.
