Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation To J Vick 71: If FICO is not a RNG, and George's loss of 33 points is not related to FICO being an RNG, then please explain the FICO logic of this: In January 2003 my FICO was 620. I have no credit cards, no credit lines. I have a mortgage which is always paid on time. I have a HELOC which is always paid on time, approximately 75% utilization. In February 2003 a CA posts a trade line to my CRA file. FICO goes down 40 points immediately. In March, under threat of suit, the CA removes their TL. Nothing else has changed. No other TL's no inquiries, balance on mortgage goes down $300 and HELOC utilization goes down about 3%. Of the 40 points I lost due to the addition of the CA's TL, I only got back 17. Is FICO penalizing me for what is no longer there by not giuving back the full 40 points? Does FICO not only look at what IS in a CRA file, but also what ISN'T there, or is NO LONGER there? Just curious. Sorry, I believe FICO is a RNG shell game that is set up so that there is no way the consumer can win, and the algorithm is set up to gerate the lowest possible score because of collusion between FICO and the lenders who use it, in order to justify higher interest rates.
Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score i I agree... Imagine how much money could be made if there were a true "secret agreement" set in place between FICO and lenders. Granted, I'm a bit more paranoid than your average individual but, let's face it, lenders are in the business of making $$$ and this would be a good way to make it!
Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation EXPLAIN THIS---->33 POINTS TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LESS OWED...(now compared to my "HIGH" @ 739) STILL... NO CA NO BK NO OVER-LIMIT NO LATES NO COLLECTIONS CREDIT SINCE 1978 SINCE I'M ALWAYS WRONG...I GUESS I GET -33 POINTS BECAUSE I AM ALWAYS WRONG
Re: How is FICO Score "RNG" and "generate the lowest possible score" are contradictory concepts. A truly random score would only rarely, by chance, be the lowest possible score.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation A FICO score does not know if you are retired, unemployed, or have a low or high paying job. Have you noticed positive or negative factors are based on averages. GEORGE your credit lines on all of your accounts are way to high compared to average. You have perfect credit since 1978 and your score is 706, the average FICO score is 720. Run a FICO score simulator and watch what would happen to your score if you added lets say 30% to your credit lines. I would bet your score would drop into the 600's. If you want a better FICO score your overall report should look more average and exceed it the way FICO understands all the varibles that determine the score. Positive factors, negative factors, and average. I don't know your situation but I would guess you have done alot of balance transfers over the last 24 months. It also sounds like you have a higher than average income. One month ago I had Bankruptcy, multiple judgments, lates, alot of older negative accounts and also collection accounts on all 3 credit reports and my true FICO score on TU and EXP was around 706. My personal score is that high with the past history because I live my life by the FICO score simulator. If I took on 30% more on the credit lines it would not have a negative impact on my score because my overall credit lines are below average. GEORGE, your current creditors are doing a good job keeping your score down with the high credit lines. The choice is always yours to make.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation Flyingifr, which report are you pulling? Also, how are you pulling it?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation I have a credit report in front of me right now that shows a FICO score of 639. Total credit lines $500. Total on balances $389. If this person were to pay $368- $387 off on the balances. The FICO score would fall between 659-699. GEORGE, this would be a credit report quite opposite of yours. Very low credit lines. Also this credit report has a recent BK(7) and negative account information unlike GEORGE's.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation ...AND YOUR SUGGESTIONS ARE??? Get more credit cards??? Close more accounts??? "MAX" EVERYTHING??? The "SIMULATOR" said I "MAY" get into the 800's if I pay 100% off...BUT if I "MAX" everything...I will not change much...I won't even get below 620...(I THINK)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation The IRS, for example, does not audit returns randomly. Each line on a return is numbered. With each of these numbers is a very complex internal algorithmic system which calculates the average size of this line as compared to others in the same business. It takes into consideration such things as profession, income, deductions, etc., etc., etc.. It's called the "Discriminate Function System", DIF for short. When one of your lines exceeds to internal system of calculation your return is triggered for examination. Although it appears to be random, and most Americans still believe it is random, nothing could be further from the truth. The purpose of the DIF Score System is to focus on those returns that have the highest potential to yield/extract the maximum number of dollars for the IRS. We've been trying to figure out the DIF scores for many years. It's one of the most carefully guarded secrets in gov't. Only an extremely small handfull at the top of the IRS know how it works.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation GEORGE, if the simulator says that you can pay most or all of it off and get into the 800's. Or if you max your credit cards and it will not change much. That would be your problem. Now I can see why you try to keep your credit lines so high. To keep the proportion of balances to credit limits percentage as low as possible with such high balances. More credit cards no. Close more accounts, I would not do that either, yet. MAX everything, no. I would bet you paid tens of thousands and closed tens of thousands that would explain the drop. My suggestion would be to pay your balances down above anything else but you already know that. I would guess you have close to a zero A.P.R on balance transfers and you figure it is not really hurting you anyways in your real life. FICO does not care about the A.P.R on the balance transfer, it is a balance that needs to be paid. I would be careful at this point and hope your best credit cards do not raise your rates if they pull a soft to see your report and score.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation Thanks Butch, great info. I hope I don't get trapped in that one also LOL.
I think there may be a difference, but whatever difference there was would be too small to stress over. I wouldn't keep balances on multiple cards just to keep accounts active, though. On a credit report, there is no difference between an account that was dormant for six months and then had a charge, and an account that had activity for all six of those months.
Mycroft, I actually meant active to keep them open and rotating the very small balances to different ones to keep them open again. Good call though. I know it is nothing to stress about but I am just trying to figure out exactly what impact it actually has. Kind of like if you have $0 of debt your score would be less than if you had $100 of overall debt in most cases.
Well ... As I approach "old timer" status, (lol) I think I know George pretty well, and beleive I know what his biggest problem actually is. Geo. has large credit lines. When he charges something he almost ALWAYS pays it off at the end of the month. When he does carry a balance, it's quite small. Moreover, George has never been late or over limit, so the opportunity to charge George fees for such wouldn't exist. If I were a creditor I would consider George to be an UNproductive customer, speaking from a profit perspective. I think there's a special score card for folks like George, which would artificially suppress his score, ableit only by a little. He's entirely TOO DAMNED responsible with his credit.
Not a single late and perfect credit since at least 1978, exactly. I think GEORGE looked at his credit score and saw it as bs and that is understandable. A FICO score is just determined by what others have done over the years with a simular credit report not counting his personal age or income. The A.P.R on credit accounts a long time ago was alot higher when they came up with this system. If GEORGE knows he is fine in reality and in his personal situation than that is what really matters. I admit it really is not fair that someone like myself can have a FICO score comparable to GEORGE and my credit report is full of past negatives, judgments, and a less than 2 year BK(7). I opened 10 accounts after a BK(7) and did the whole disputing thing to get 75% of my negatives off of the reports, and keep my balances extremely low. I actually understand personally how GEORGE could feel about this FICO score system. I pulled my FAKO from EXP and hated it. I did not even bother to fix it until a few months ago because the score was so much lower than the EXP and TU. All I did was learn how to get a better FICO score every month by playing their game the way FICO understands. I became a FICO addict and kept finding ways to raise it. Waiting to qualify for a mortgage after the 2 year discharge point will do that to an individual like myself. GEORGE, either play the FICO game to raise your score or live your life which is reality and you know what is best, which is alot better than what they know. I can understand your RNG comments but it really is not a RNG score.
Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation That is why I have 5 Providian or Capital One accounts. My lowest A.P.R is 14.9% on 2 of them. They see me as $$$ and many fall for it. I am seen in the creditors eyes as easy money because I can't file BK(7) until 6 years have past. I should be a productive customer but I am not. Good call Butch!
Re: Re: How is FICO score in this situation Ah, I see. I used to do something similar. I'd rotate my cards in my wallet, use one for a month, pay it off, then next month I'd use a different one. I figured I'd keep them all active that way. Eventually I got tired of it and just picked my favorite two and used them exclusivly. After about a year, a couple of the unused ones were closed for inactivity.
Re: How is FICO Score About the IRS: I have a friend who worked briefly for the IRS. He says they taught their trainees to "go for the fast buck, not the last buck."
