How to spot an invalid judgement

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by bbauer, Sep 11, 2001.

  1. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    This person got a summons and ignored it. and this attorney even went back to court and got a garnishment order and went to the person's bank and tried to garnish their pickup truck.

    But guess what. Although this person got the summons and the court granted judgement, this person was never sued! The judgement is totally void and illegal.


    This is a perfect example of sleazebag attorneys and their sloppy work. This case is a prime
    example of what goes on routinely in America's small claims courts and passes for "professional" legal work.

    I have stated many times on this board that lots of attorneys are sloppy and do very little correctly, but rather do whatever to just get by. And our rubber stamp courts supposedly make it all right.
    Attorneys and Judges who allow this kind of sleazy crap to pass for justice ought to be spending their days in a jail cell rather than stealing people's money and property. These klutzes even had the unmitigated gall to go see if they couldn't steal this person's pick up truck on the basis of their garnishment and yet the person had never actually been sued!

    Now then, let's see who can tell me all of the things that is wrong with this judgement. Why is it such an atrocity?

    Some people have said that I am nuts and that no such thing as this would ever pass muster in a court of law and no attorney would do such things and commit such errors. This one is proof of the pudding and just about takes the cake, but the problem is that there are millions of these same kinds of judgements out there and people have lost their money and their property because of them.

    Who can tell me what is wrong with this judgement and what I am going to do about it.
    Who can tell me what I have to do to help this person get this judgement and garnishment overturned and why can I do it?

    Let's see who can come up with the right answers.
  2. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Alright, one of the first things that is wrong with this judgement is that there are no affidavits of any kind.

    In order for a claim to be valid in a court of law, there must, at a very bare minimum be an affidavit that supports the claim.

    No affidavit of fact, no claim exists, no injury has been established and there is no basis upon which the court could have legally granted relief. No case actually existed here.

    That is just the first of a litany of errors that were made in this case.

    Now then, can anyone else spot some of the other gross errors in this judgement?
  3. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    Does the other error have to do with the request for additional fees?
  4. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    That is possibly another error.

    The attorney is demanding that the debtor pay his attorney fees in addition to the original judgement amount. There is another post on this board complete with case cites which show that a judgement was appealed and the apellate court ruled that the attorney had a contract with his client and that it is up to the attorney's client to pay the attorney fees, not the debtor.
    That judgement was overturned in part by the appellate court for that reason.

    If I read the case correctly, most of the apellant's arguments were rejected by the court but that particular factor was ruled upon by the court as being impermissible.

    But this case has several other errors as well. That is why I am using it because it is so atrocious in the context of the number and type of errors made by the attorney.

    Good show, TML.
    Now let us see how many more errors can be found.
    This should be great instruction that most of us who owe debts should all be aware of, just in case.

  5. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    Well I admit I don't understand Item #4 and that plaintiff believes that the bank is indebted, I just don't understand what it this somehow an error, as to how it is worded?
  6. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    How would the bank have possession of the truck? How would the bank garnish a truck?
  7. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    Is the error that the atty is swearing to statements?

    Should the attorney have encluded that the plaintiff is swearing under notary that the debt is owed to them? Not just his statement claiming the debt is owed to his client?
  8. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Yes, TML, that is another one.

    Remember the ruling in CLICK HERE FOR TRINSEY v. PAGLIAROwhere Judge Wood said that statements by attorney may be enlightening or entertaining to the court, they are not sufficient to grant motion for summary judgement? Or at least words to that effect.

    In other words, it makes no difference what the attorney says, how many truckloads of paperwork he submits to the court, if he has no affidavits of fact, no proof of the debt, no grounds exist for the court to grant relief exists.

    While Trinsey v. Pagliaro was not a landmark case, it was truly earthshaking in it's wisdom and effect upon how attorneys must conduct their work in court.

    Trinsey v Pagliaro is most certainly one of the many cites that should be used when asking a court for relief from the void judgement such as this one.

    On top of ruining the chances of the bank to ever collect on this debt, my customer also has the option of just about ruining the attorney's finances as well. I am quite sure that this person will pursue the matter to the fullest extent allowable under the law.

    Are there any other errors in this case that can be spotted?
  9. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    The person had borrowed money against the truck from another bank at some later point in time so that the bank held title to the truck. This is a different bank than the bank doing the sueing for the credit card debt
  10. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    Then was it an error not to name the other bank in the original lawsuit? Why would the second bank have to surrender the title they were holding bc the individual had been sued? How did the 2nd bank get the title if the defendant still owed money to the first bank? As always I am

    They are asking the court to force the 2nd bank to surrender the title and deprived the 2nd bank to defend their position?
  11. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Let's see if I can set the record straight in a manner that can be better understood.

    First of all, have you clicked on all of the pages so that you move from one page to the next and therefore see the whole picture? Each of the pages are clickable and will lead you to the next page of the series. There are 4 pages in all.

    And again, First off, the credit card company sued and got judgement for the amount due on the credit card indebtedness. The first page you see is the garnishment which came after the judgement and was to another bank having nothing to do with the credit card indebtedness. In that garnishment action, the attorney sought to replevin or garnish a truck owned in part by the defendant and in part by the 2nd bank.

    The first page you see is that garnishment proceeding, not the original judgement. That is my error because I should logically have presented the judgement and it's papers first and the garnishment action at the end of the string of documents.

    Hope that helps to clarify a bit.
  12. Hal

    Hal Well-Known Member

    Well after a quick glance, unless it was whited out, I don't see a DATE OF SERVICE indicated on the date line.

    I don't see how a defendant could be held liable for service if there is no indication when he/she was served.
  13. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    Sorry Bill, don't know what I am doing wrong but both the Petition and the Journal Entry of Default Judgment look like incomplete documents to me. Darned if I can figure out why they are improper...guess I get an F in this class. lol
  14. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    You have brought out something that I didn't see either.
    As a result, I have re-done the entire project and there are 2 or 3 other pages which I did not present before as I didn't see they would be necessary for the purposes of the lesson.

    I'd like you to look them all over again as well as anyone else that had looked at them before to see the new material.

    I have also added in a link so that clicking on the last page will bring the visitor back to this page.

    Again, all pages are clickable and clicking on any page will take one to the next page in the sequence.

    here is the link again.

    So let's see what else you folks can come up with now that you have additional information.
  15. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    It is taking forever for my computer to load each page.....hope its not going out on me...

    Anyway the document for Proof of Service handed to the court by the process service does not have the defendants name anywhere on the document and time of service is blank.

    Also Location, process servers fees and firm file No., blank.....not sure these are required to be valid.

    Still trying to find something on the other documents..
  16. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    The maximum interest that can be collected on a judgment ( the judgment rate ) in Oklahoma is the T-bill rate plus 4%

    This judgment orders the contract rate of 13.9% until paid. Well above the allowed judgment rate.

    This alone would be grounds to have the judgment vacated.
  17. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    There are no dates whited out.

    Only the name of the defendant and the address and phone number of the attorney and some of the docket numbers in order to protect the identity of the defendant.

    All the rest is exactly as scanned.
  18. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    That is an excellent point, Jeff.

    Do you happen to have a website reference where these rates can be looked up for each state or do we have to go to the individual state codes to find this info?

    If a website with this information is available, it would sure help the cause in the future.

    Thanks for your excellent input, Jeff
  19. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

  20. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    I also find out now that this item is listed on the credit reports as having been charged off by the bank.

    What difference would that make in a court of law? How do they get a judgement on an item that has been charged off?

    Does this or does this not constitute fraud on the part of the attorney?

    If so, by what statutes?

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