how2remove paid jdgemnts?bilorany1?

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Ender, May 20, 2001.

  1. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    I only have a paid judgement appearing on my Equifax report. Anyone have suggestions on trying to get this removed? I tried contesting as NOT MINE and they updated the info to reflect it has been PAID.

    I disputed it as NOT ACCURATE and it came back VERIFIED. I did this twice already and got verified. Any other suggestions? It only appears on my Equifax report.

    Also, as a note, the collection agency that put this on there said that as long as I pay them, they will not answer when the CRA contacts them regarding the judgement. Unfortunately, I didn't get any of this in writing or such because I wasn't as knowledgable about the credit repair process and such.. but it was only their word on the phone. Any suggestions? As for now, I don't even think the CRA calls the CAs.. they call the courts to verify, right?

    Also, this might be a question for Bill since you mentioned that it is fairly easy to get a reversal on judgements if the court process wasn't done correctly.. well, I was never SERVED the SUMMONS. Can I do anything? On the papers, it said it was delivered to someone other than my name that lived at my address ( a roommate that gave a false name anyway). However the situation now is that right before the wage garnishment became active, I ended up settling and paying for it. Thus, the judgement status is now PAID. Any suggestions on this?
     
  2. Linda

    Linda Well-Known Member

    Have you checked your state laws regarding when it should come off the credit reports to see if they might be helpful? For example if you pay a NY judgment within the first 5 years then it's supposed to fall off your credit report 5 yrs from the date it was filed.
     
  3. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    As for now, I don't even think the CRA calls the CAs they call the courts to verify, right?

    No, neither assumption is correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.

    What actually happens is that they call the County Recorders office where all judgements and any other legal data concerning you is stored. In many of the larger cities, the credit bureaus actually have "correspondents" of their own who go look it up for them rather than trying to deal with the County Recorder's office itself.

    Since your judgement has already been paid, your best bet now is to go to the County Clerk's office where the records of the court are stored and look at those files. You will be looking for such things as non-certified copies of the original document that you signed with the creditor, any affidavits that were filed, notice of service by sheriff or process server, notices of publication in local newspapers or the official court reporter newspaper in your area, whatever that may be called where you live. You will be looking for errors in the proceedings, who personally testified as to the validity of the debt or in lieu of personal testimony, who provided sworn affidavit of the indebtedness, You will want to check for the validity of all signatures on those documents to see if there is any likelihood that the signature appearing on the original document (if there actually is one visible) is the same as that in any sworn affidavits. Any error you can find is grounds for motion for summary judgement demanding reversal of the judgement.

    It's going to take some learning on your part, but that's the place to start.
     
  4. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Also, this might be a question for Bill since you mentioned that it is fairly easy to get a reversal on judgements if the court process wasn't done correctly.. well, I was never SERVED the SUMMONS.

    Can I do anything? On the papers, it said it was delivered to someone other than my name that lived at my address ( a roommate that gave a false name anyway). However the situation now is that right before the wage garnishment became active, I ended up settling and paying for it. Thus, the judgement status is now PAID. Any suggestions on this?
    ****************************
    This is another of the things you will need to check on. What are the legal requirements in your state to effect service of summons? You have to learn that and then check the actual affidavit of service at the court house to see if there are any errors there. These are things I cannot tell you about because I do not live in the same state and I am not a practicing attorney in your state (or anywhere else) so all I can do is to make you aware of what you need to look for. Under all normal circumstances, you should be able to find maybe as many as 4 or 5 errors in the filings or proceedings. That's about standard, but on rare occasions you will find a whole litany of errors. Also, what may effect legal service of summons in one type of case may not be a legal service of summons in another type of case. For instance, if it were in a case involving district court, the requirements would be much stiffer than they might be in small claims court. That is usually the case.
     
  5. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    It was definitely not in small claims court. I also live in CA. Any suggestions as to web sites I can check and find out info myself? I don't have access to Lexis or Westlaw which would definitely beneficial.. but any other resources I can check on the computer?

    I also appreciate your response.. the court papers and such are about a 2 hour drive from where I live, so I may go that route if I need to. This was a debt made back in '97. I paid the judgement in 2000. I already took a look at all the paperwork that were filed and believe I still have a copy of it. It was an extreme hassle to deal with this because I had to sit there in the offie and use their SLOW copy machine.. and it cost 25 cents per page and there were nearly 70 pages or so.. but I wanted to get it to make sure it was all legitamate.

    They do have a opy of my original signature. The debt was with a department store credit card. I believe the merchandise secured the purchase? Maybe that's why the CA decided to pusue the debt so earnestly.. although the original debt was only for $800 or so, the total amount the CA was demanding was for $3400!!

    The way the line item on my report says is:

    Public Information
    Satisified Judgement File 8/98. Yolo Muni-WOodland. Case or Other ID Number -CVXXXXXXX. Defendant - LAST, FIRST. Amount - $2041; Plaintiff National Credit Acceptance Inc; Satisfied 03/01; Verified 05/01.

    I satisfied this late 2000. Also, I paid $2500 because they were in the process of filing paperwork to raise it to $3200. For now, I was going to keep disputing as NOT ACCURATE and continue doing so.. I can always send a copy of the settlement agreement that I received from the CA, but I figure that would be shooting myself in the foot because then the CA would just update it to reflect that. Anyhow, any suggestions on this would be great..
     
  6. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    It was definitely not in small claims court. I also live in CA.

    It makes no difference what kind of court it was in, they still have a record of all that happened in court and the papers filed in the case, no matter how long ago it was.
    **********************************************************
    Any suggestions as to web sites I can check and find out info myself?

    No, although some "baliwicks" are now putting all those documents and court filings on line. It's a long slow process of course. You might call up the County Clerks office where it is and ask them if they have such info on line so you can get it online.
    *****************************************************
    I don't have access to Lexis or Westlaw which would definitely beneficial but any other resources I can check on the computer? I don't know for sure, but Lexis and Westlaw definitely don't carry all such cases for reference.
    *********************************************
    I also appreciate your response.. the court papers and such are about a 2 hour drive from where I live, so I may go that route if I need to.

    I think that's the route you will probably have to go. You had best know exactly what you are looking for or be prepared to pay a bunch for all the copies of all the documents so you can look them up. You would also want to check the County Recorders office to see if they actually filed judgement or just lis pendence. If they filed lis pendence instead of actual judgement, you would might want to lay behind the log for the necessary 5 years so they can't actually file the judgement anymore. I think I'm going off base with that one because I am working from menmory about what you posted earlier. If so, forgive me, but it still would not hurt to check the record for lis pendence in lieu of actual judgement. That happens quite often, especially if the amount is large and the probability of recuperation seems small.to the creditor.
    ***********************************
    This was a debt made back in '97. I paid the judgement in 2000. I already took a look at all the paperwork that were filed and believe I still have a copy of it. It was an extreme hassle to deal with this because I had to sit there in the offie and use their SLOW copy machine.. and it cost 25 cents per page and there were nearly 70 pages or so.. but I wanted to get it to make sure it was all legitamate.

    Well then, do you already have all the paperwork where you are now?
    **********************************
    They do have a copy of my original signature. The debt was with a department store credit card. I believe the merchandise secured the purchase?

    Sometimes, sometimes not. Depends on the store or card issuer and their policies.
    ***********************************
    Maybe that's why the CA decided to pusue the debt so earnestly.. although the original debt was only for $800 or so, the total amount the CA was demanding was for $3400!!

    All of that makes little difference now. The court approved the amount, and you apparently paid it, so that's the end of that.
    ************************************
    The way the line item on my report says is:

    Public Information
    Satisified Judgement File 8/98. Yolo Muni-WOodland. Case or Other ID Number -CVXXXXXXX.
    Defendant - LAST, FIRST. Amount - $2041; Plaintiff National Credit Acceptance Inc; Satisfied 03/01;
    Verified 05/01.

    I satisfied this late 2000. Also, I paid $2500 because they were in the process of filing paperwork to raise it to $3200. For now, I was going to keep disputing as NOT ACCURATE and continue doing so.. I can always send a copy of the settlement agreement that I received from the CA, but I figure that would be shooting myself in the foot because then the CA would just update it to reflect that. Anyhow, any suggestions on this would be great..

    I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment. I think the only hope you have now is to see if you can find reverseable errors and go from there.
     
  7. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    To answer your quesiton, i do have about 70 pages of paperwork. The only paperwork that I don't have is after it was SATISFIED. I also don't have any of the paperwork theysent to the sheriff's office regarding garnisment. Everything before then I do. Is there anything I can look for immediately that would be something I can bring up to get the whole thing dismissed or reversed?

    I am assuming there is no way to recover the money I already paid (2500) at this point and it is moot, correct? So my intention would be to find errors just to get it off my record and also my CRA.

    A side question, will this satisified judgement show up on my merged report when applying for a mortgage loan for a house or do they go off the 3 CRA's reports? Meaning that if I work hard to clean the 3 reports clean, is this sufficient? Or do I need to trace everything else such as the court papers, SCAN, Chex, etc. ? Thx again..
     
  8. Marie

    Marie Well-Known Member

    Interesting. I tried to do this but was told by a atty who specializes in credit that it has to be done within 1 year of the judgment date. I was way past the SOL. and unfortunately, the creditor's atty did renew the judgment so it was going to continue to dog me.

    As an aside, if your goal is simply the removal of the info: you've disputed, it's come back verified but the dates are wrong. Frankly, if you've gone through 2 rounds of that, then the notation really is wrong. I'd sue the CRAs. TU will likely back down w/out going to court. the rest are a crapshoot but a judgment really hurts you so if I were you, I'd push the issue. They'll take it off to make you go away.
     
  9. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Interesting. I tried to do this but was told by a atty who specializes in credit that it has to be done within 1 year of the judgment date. I was way past the SOL. and unfortunately, the creditor's atty did renew the judgment so it was going to continue to dog me.

    Well, what you might want to do is to go to a law library and find out for yourself what the time limit is in your state for filing a motion for summary judgement for the purpose of redress of errors committed by plaintiff on his original judgement. If you don't want to do the research, then I would look up the closest law school and call them up and ask to speak to one of the professors at the school. Tell the prof that you had a judgement against you and you went down to the court house and looked over the record at the County Clerk's office and that you are pretty sure that some of the required affidavits were not filed with or presented to the court and you would like to know how long you have in which to go to court and ask for a reversal on grounds of errors in the original judgement.

    See if that law professor will tell you the same thing that attorney told you. If you come up with 2 different stories, then something is fishy, isn't it? In case of disagreement, who are you going to believe, the teacher or the one-time student????

    That's the way I would go about it.
     
  10. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    So you are saying the SOL is 1 year? What do you mean renew the judgement? If the judgement has been SATISFIED and already paid, does that mean the CA will no longer renew this judgement? What difference would this make if the CRA's verify with the courts anyway? Or do the courts lose the records if it's not renewed? Or do you mean in the case where it isn't paid?

    Also, I do plan on going through the lawsuit process and I guess this would be a good enough reason when filing the lawsuit and stating that the line is INNACCURATE which it is as part of the law suit. I plan on suing the 3 CRA's in small claims mid September once I go through 3 rounds of validations and 3 rounds of disputes with the CRA's to create a paper trail.

    Any other suggestions on getting rid of the judgement?
     
  11. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Originally posted by Marie

    Interesting. I tried to do this but was told by a atty who specializes in credit that it has to be done within 1 year of the judgment date.

    I was quite certain that she was talking about an original judgement and disputing it in court for the reason of errors. My thought upon reading it was that she had asked some credit specialist attorney if she could contest the judgement once it was adjudged and granted for some reason, whatever her reason might have been, such as for instance she found that she had been sued for the wrong amount or whatever. I believe that the attorney she consulted gave her the right answer to the wrong question. Ask an expert the wrong question and you will get the right answer to the wrong question every time. An error in the amount or actual facts of the case does have an SOL and it is usually about one year depending on the state. Those are not reverseable errors such as we are talking about which is an altogether different situation.
    ***********************************
    I was way past the SOL.and unfortunately, the creditor's atty did renew the judgment so it was going to continue to dog me.

    While I don't have all the facts here upon which to base solid judgement, this further makes me believe that she was talking about error in testimony or fact. Her statement that she was way past the SOL probably puts her out near the 5 year SOL for the creditor to reney the judgement or it will become null and void and unenforceable. That's also true in some states, but not all by any means. In many states, the SOL for renewal of a judgement is more like 20 years. But even a renewal of judgement would not withstand an attack based upon legal errors in procedure. Those are reverseable on the basic fact that an error in legal procedure effectively denies defendant due process of law. An easily understandable example might be that the law required that the summons be served upon the defendant in person, but the process server simply stuck it in an envelope and mailed it to the defendant, The defendant would then have been denied due process of law and upon discovery would be challengeable. Another example might be that the Civil Rules of Procedure demanded that the original copy of the contract signed by the defendant or in it's stead a certified copy of the document be supplied the court or lacking either, the sworn testimony or affidavit of the creditor be part of the filings. In stead of that, the attorney simply got up and stated "Your honor, the debtor owes my plaintiff the sum of $$.00 and plaintiff prays for judgement" So the judge grants the judgement. There would have been two reverseable errors committed. The first would be lack of proper documentation so that the court could determine the validity of the debt and the second would have been that the attorney provided testimony before the court in a case in which he was plaintiff's attorney. Those would both cause the judgement to be void upon it's face because one violated the defendants right to due process of law and the other because the attorney's testimony before the court violated civil rules of procedure. In order to accomplish what you want to do, you need to understand such differences. And that's also just one of the reasons why you should always seek advice of an attorney or other legally competent person who can look over what you have come up with and critique it. As a matter of fact, If I had no real experience, I would far rather do the research, get the paperwork all ready to go then go see if I could get an attorney to actually go to court and do the case on a fee contingency basis so long as he didn't want more than maybe 25 or 30 percent for his time in court. Once I had done the research a couple of cases or so, then I'd be a lot more confident that I was good enough to just go pro se after having sought the advice of counsel.
     
  12. Squawk1200

    Squawk1200 Well-Known Member

    Ender --

    I am a lawyer and I can tell you that although I'm sure Bill means well, he has a lot of mixed-up ideas about the law. Based on what you said, though, I think you have a good shot at getting rid of the judgment because of the defective service of process. If you like, e-mail me at squawk1200@justice.com and I'll help you out.

    And no, I'm not going to try to charge you or anything like that -- you don't even have to tell me who you are. I just don't like to see folks get pushed around in the legal system.
     
  13. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    That's really cool. I bet you'll be getting some emails. ;)

    breeze
     
  14. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    I'm going to be posting some actual court cases that were won by people following my instructions here in oklahoma.
    The postings will be the actual court documents and arguments which won the case. That way people here can see how a case should be prepared, argued and won. The first case will be one wherein an elderly lady was being sued for about $14,000 by an attorney whose bar number was #103 here in Oklahoma. The lowness of the number means that he was the 103 attorney to ever apply for "license" to practice before the bar here in Oklahoma. That old bird was a very famous attorney here in Oklahoma and just like others here in this forum, he advised Dorothy who is a good friend of mine to go find herself a competent attorney to defend her. At discovery, he told her she had some crazy mixed up ideas about the law and if she didn't go get professional help, she was going to lose her home. She won and he went home shaking his head and wondering how that ever happened to him.

    Another case will be that of Bobby. Bobby is also a good friend of mine and he hired a long time professional attorney to settle a case against the county for an automobile accident the county had caused due to insufficient signage in a construction area. The professional attorney fiddled with the case for a year and finally advised Bobby that he had best just forget the whole thing since he couldn't fight city hall and win. Bobby did just that and the case is being settled for a nice sum of money.

    There are many of these cases that professional attorneys have either screwed up or lost because they thought they knew so much and when the rubber really met the road, they were whipped in a heartbeat. These cases that I will post over time will show you all exactly how to prepare your case and win them against seasoned professionals.

    I will try to get the first one up this evening.
     
  15. Marie

    Marie Well-Known Member

    Clarification.

    The judgment occurred a long time ago. It's a moot point since I filed a bk... but I'm really curious about this.

    The judgment had defective service. yes. I never knew about it for a while. So the judgment occurred.

    After someone gets a judgment , it's good only for a certain number of years (I forget: 6 or 7 I think in Ga). After that point, the judgment has to be renewed. If they don't renew it, it basically disappears (the creditor can't collect on the judgment).

    Well, my creditor did renew the judgment in a timely manner. So, in essence, if a creditor keeps renewing a judgment... then they can come after you forever pretty much.


    With regards to getting a judgment reversed, vacated, voided... whatever. I was told by a very competent atty that there's a 1 year sol to contest it for failure of proper service.

    Since the failure of proper service was specifically the issue, and he looked it up (I was going to hire him to deal w/it if it could be an issue)... so I did get competent advise on this issue.

    I was just putting out the point, since Bill is putting out some great theory, that we are all laypeople not lawyers.. and there may be some other issues which would interfere with making a judgment go away.

    That being said, if I had a judgment against me today I'd certainly do everything in my power to fight it... not just pay it. I just also wanted to point out that it may not be as easy as Bill makes it seem. I wish it were that easy.
     
  16. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    There are a lot of variables here..... I am using an attorney to have a judgment from 1995 vacated. At this point the petition (or whatever it's called) has been sent to the court. In my case, my attorney got the plaintiff's attorney to sign a joint petition to have it vacated.

    As far as attorneys doing their job, I had to dog this one every step of the way. He would never return my calls and was always unavailable, hehe. Fortunately, he was a referral from my legal insurance plan, and I finally started complaining to their referral department. I don't know what they said to him, but he immediately got it all done, and offered me part of my money back for my inconvenience.

    Money back from a lawyer?????? ROFL

    breeze
     
  17. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Squawk,

    Feel free to take potshots at insurance agents <VBG>

    breeze
     
  18. Squawk1200

    Squawk1200 Well-Known Member

    Hi Marie --

    Your post brings up an excellent point -- when it comes to things like the FDCPA or the FCRA, there is one law -- federal law -- that is essentially (but not necessarily exactly) the same everywhere. When it comes to suits to collect debts from individuals and judgments, though, we're taling STATE law, and there could be 50 different variations on a given issue.

    Personally, I would be surprised if there was a 1 yr. SOL to challenge defective service of process. Here in NY, the law basically is that you have one year to challenge a judgment, EXCEPT for challenges based on defective service, which could be made essentially at any time. But it's certainly within the realm of possibility. I'll note that in Georgia, the SOL to attack a Judgment is three years, and judgments entered without personal jurisdiction are considered void and may be attacked at any time. But maybe there's special rules that kick in after you've paid a judgment.

    Bill --

    I very much look forward to reading the corut documents and decisions.

    Breeze --

    Good for you for keeping your lawyer's feet to the fire. Attoerneys have an etical obligation not to neglect their client's cases and not to take on so much business that they ccan't return phone calls!
     
  19. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    For me, I really was bullied and such during this judgement and all I know was that the garnishment was about to occur the following week. Ididn't want this to happened, so I ended up having to pay for the settlement after talking to the extremely RUDE collection agency people. I also had to DRIVE for 2 HOURS! to drop it off at their local post office because they wouldn't accept any other method of payment except a dropped off money order. Anyhow, I look forward to your reply Squawk..
     
  20. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Ok. I can understand completely now where you are coming from. You are talking about GA law in this instance and the State of GA may have some specific law dealing with such issues as improper service of summons. where Oklahoma does not as far as I know. I've never had to deal with a situation involving improper service of summons and if I have never had any reason to deal with a particular situation then I most likely would not know anything about it. That's part of the advantage that a practicing attorney has over a student of the law. Their teachers cover a much broader range of subjects than I would ever have reason to study. On top of that, a goodly percentage of them go on to become specialized in whatever particular branch of the law that they might be wishing to practice. Much like a doctor does. And that is why I am so specific in telling any and all that while they can often come up with things that will win the day for them if they will go to the time and trouble to study the law on specific subjects of interest to them at the moment. They can also save a lot of money if they do enough study on their particular case to be proficient at doing it pro se. But no matter what they come up with they still need to take their ideas and theories and what they have discovered and go to an attorney or other legal "expert" and let them either go over the paper work or show them what you have come up with and pay them to take it from there and go to court and represent you. Doing anything short of that can get you in a world of hurt.

    In your particular case, given the things you have posted here, I'd be willing to call up a law professor and ask him the same questions you asked the lawyer. If they agree, then you can feel safe that no matter what I say or anyone else might say, you probably have the right answer. If they don't give the same or basically the same answers, then it's time to go find out for yourself or ask the law professor who he would recommend that you seek as your legal counsel. He most likely will give you 2 or 3 you can choose from but would be most unlikely to come out and name just one. Anyone he recommends would most likely be one of his better students from sometime in the past.

    Laws are different in each and every state, and what makes sense in one state may be off the wall and out to lunch in another state. And that's why you should never take what you find on a message board as being the gospel truth no matter who makes the statement. You always need to take what sounds good on the board and check it out with "authorities" in your state, and most especially if it deals with something such as your case which happened only in your state.

    Laws may be similiar from state to state, even the same in some cases. But you always have to be sure of what you do.
     

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