Lets try this again...this site is really messed up lately isnt it? I am so mad. I cannot believe these scum sucking junk debt buying con artist CAs. Long story short: My dad had impeccable credit most of his life, made great money, had a great life...then, 15 yrs ago, his wife (my mom) died of cancer, and his job of 25 years was suddenly and unexpectedly gone (Assistant VP of a bank that got bought out) and he was left to take care of 4 kids by himself. Needless to say, back then, his credit was the last thing he was worried about. He managed to keep his house and car, and thats about it. Took him about 10 years, but he got back on his feet, and for the last 5 yrs, he's gotten really serious about his credit, and now has scores in the mid to high 700s. He's worked really hard. So, the other day, he gets a letter from Academy Collection Services, Inc. address: 10965 Decatur Rd., Philadelphia, PA 19154-3210. ----------------------------- "This is to advise you that your delinquent account has been transferred to our office for collections by Citibank. As of the date of this letter, you owe XXXX. Because of interest, late charges, and other charges that may vary from day to day, the amount due on the day you pay may be greater. Hence, if you pay the total balance due shown above, an adjustment may be necessary after we receive your payment. can you even believe that line? If you choose not to pay the balance in full, the creditor may be willing to offer you a ***settlement*** [asterisks theirs] that can save you money. arent they nice? If you wish to take advantage of this offer, call us to discuss the details. This offer does not cancel nor override your dispute rights set forth below." ----------------------------- Then, they go on to meticulously outline his rights. OK. My dad knows he has never had an account with the OC (citibank). He has a very vague memory of receiving all kinds of credit offers and actual checks in the mail from creditors back then (because his credit was so good i guess) but his frame of mind was all screwed up because of everything he was going thru at the time. He says he very well may have signed one of them if he was in need of money, but he honestly doesnt remember ever cashing a citibank check or making any payments to citibank...ever. So he called Academy, and they told him this was from a debt that was opened in 1989, and charged off in 1993. I don't know how he contained himself, because this is so old. Ok, so the SOL is up, and he is aware of all that, and he's heard my stories about credit repair, etc. so he started asking questions. They said they would give him a break and take 70% of the debt right now, but that offer is only good until the end of the month. ACK. THE NERVE. Anyway, the lady was trying to get his personal info, and she asked him if he still lived on _____ Street, and he said "no, i've never lived at that address." (he's lived at the same address for like 30 years, and that was not the address she said) He wondered out loud to this woman..."I wonder where on earth THAT address came from...I've lived at the same address for 30 years" and she proceeded to say, "from your credit report." somehow....SOMEHOW....he kept his cool and said 'you've seen my credit report?' and she said 'yes, and you must value your credit, because it is impeccable'. !@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!!!!!!!!!! Now, I really don't give a rats ass if this is legal or not. This is the kind of thing LizardKing is suing for. This pulling-to-see-if-you're-worth-our-time crap is just wrong. Since the SOL is up on this, did they have PP to pull his credit?
I am not a credit expert but I would say no.. The SOL is up and I am sure they are aware of it... Send a letter asking what their permissable purpose was for pulling this report.. Obviously they have no grounds to sue your dad.. and yes it makes me angry as well.. I have been going over my reports more and more since I have been on this board. I have noticed more than one CA that pulled my report.. Have your dad check his report to make sure that particular CA isnt listed on there. Also send the valadation letter so they cant continue trying to collect..
crowmom, I had the same question in my thread "Couple of Questions", and finally got an answer, care of fun4u2. Here ya go... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by fun4u2 if the debt is past the SOL to collect and you are positive about that then your answer is NO, no one not an OC, CA or attorney can pursue collections it is a violation under the FDCPA and FCRA for the hard inquiry on the report. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first thing to do is to make sure you tell your father to NEVER talk to them. Help him send a validation letter with a C&D. Since you know it's past the SOL, I'd just do a full C&D and let them sue him, but maybe you want to do a limited to give them some more rope to hang themselves. At the same time, ask them to provide their PP for pulling the report. If they don't reply, send and ITS letter and follow through with the suit. He should get some money for this one. It's utterly ridiculous.
Thanks, but I need more proof than that. I don't see where the FCRA or FDCPA provides info for, or against, out-of-SOL inquiries. I'm afraid it would be up to the judge. I want some hard evidence that pulls performed on out-of-sol debts are an actionable cause for filing suit. My goal is to get $$$ and deletion without actually going to court. My dad doesnt want to go in front of a judge. the following link is the thread you're talking about... http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...?s=&threadid=57978&highlight=couple+questions fun4u2? got some proof of your claims? I'd love to see it so I can send it to this scumbag CA.
I agree. its just downright mean too. My dad is scared to death. He couldnt sleep last night. I'm so mad, I want to call them. (i know, i know...i wont.) I'm going to hold off on the PP stuff and just have him hurry up and send a validation request so he retains his rights. Plus, he needs to pull his reports and check his inquiries. Also, I'm not doing a full C&D because I can just tell they'll rack up violations. do you really think they'd file suit on an out-of-sol debt?? How stupid!! UGGG. That will just freak him out. They told him they "do sue people if they don't pay". Oh and the bitch asked him if he checks his credit reports frequently. She just wanted to know that so she could get a feel for how 'clueless' he is when it comes to credit-related issues. I told him to memorialize the conversation, and I just had him send this: Dear DipShits, I am in receipt of your letter dated April 9, 2004. This is the first letter you have sent to me. This is the first time any collection agency has ever contacted me about this debt. I have enclosed a detailed record of the phone conversation I had with your polite representative, Ms. _____________ on April __. She told me this account was opened over 15 years ago, and subsequently charged-off over 10 years ago. Understandably, I have no recollection of such an old account. I have meticulously gone through all of my files, and I have no record of ever having an account with Citibank. Therefore, I am disputing this debt in its entirety, and requesting validation as described below: 1. Tell me exactly what this debt is for. 2. Show me precisely how you calculated the amount you claim I owe. 3. Send me copies of any paperwork that shows I agreed to pay what you say I owe. Your letter states that you will obtain verification of this debt and mail it to me, and that you will provide me with the name and address of the original creditor. Please send all of this information to me as soon as possible, so that we may be able to resolve this matter quickly. I am also formally requesting that you do not contact me by any means other than written correspondence from now on. Thank You for your Cooperation, crowmoms dad
Sounds good. They might file on an out of SOL debt. You can only hope so. Try to help your Dad understand that he isn't going to pay anyone anything, and in fact they might be paying him. Tell him not to lose any sleep, that you have lots of friends helping him. He just needs to start counting the violations. Tell him to hope they sue--then he can countersue for quite a bit by then, I'd think.
i would definately go ahead and send the validation letter, however DO NOT tell how to validate it. If they are professional debt collectors, they will either know how to validate it, or know where to look to find out. I say don't tell them how to validate, i.e. what info you'd like to see because as I always say, would you tell a hit man how you want to be "hit"? Ok! Good luck!
Normally, I would agree. But this is so old that you don't want to go back and forth several times with "this is all we have and you have to accept it." Her father is upset by all of this, so why not spell out what you want and let them know up front that they'll never meet the requirements. Besides, most of them think that sending something with your correct name and address is validation.
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... thanks! I know some people didnt really like or agree with Hiding90, but I personally agree with him that we must spell out exactly what we expect as far as validation is concerned.
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... Crowmom, Does your Dad live in California? I am pretty sure it is against California Law to threaten legal action on post SOL debt. I remember reading it in the State Statutes. It may apply to other states, depending on thier statutes. I believe it is found in the "unfair business practices" area. I could be wrong an apologize if I am am, but I am pretty sure i have read that fairly recently. You might want to to check your Dad's State's statutes to be sure. Reassure your Dad that this can actually do very little damage to him. The debt is too old to place on his CR and post SOL, so they can't get a dime even if they sue. They are such scum! ( the CA) 3 day
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... nope not in CA. He's in MO. I've been reading the state statutes all day. my head hurts. lol.
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... Although the CA said the old address they had was on your dad's credit report, that may not be true. They may not even have pulled a credit report. Did they say which one they pulled? Have you checked with Citibank, to see if they have a record of an old account? Even though they may have sold the account, they and other banks usually keep records of who they got burned by. It appears there are a number of companies buying old out of SOL debt, at deep discounts. Since they have already stated the debt was charged off in 1993, it is not only beyond SOL, but not even reportable. If they have an address from back then, they likely obtained it from the debt data they bought. Since your dad never lived there, there is no reason to assume it is on your credit report, unless you check it and find it there. They may be simply fishing for anyone with a similar name who may or may not be the actual debtor, and if your dad thinks he might have some old debt, they will happily accept his money. When you buy a debt at pennys on the dollar, where the original paperwork for validation may not even be available, and you can do nothing beyond bullying or bluffing to collect money anyway, there is no incentive or advantage to expend much effort to identify the correct person, nor to provide adequate validation. It's a game of trying a few attempts and quickly moving on to the next one. In fact, it may pay off better to try to convince whoever you do reach, that they are the debtor, than to try to locate the correct person, who after all, you already know successfully avoided payment. Hey, if the wrong person pays you, that's not your fault. Old debt becomes little more than a prop.
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... YOU are a good daughter, and your father is very fortunate to have YOU on his side. I agree that your father would be most comforted by seeing laws (in writing) that pertain to his case. I'm not getting the feeling that he's really wanting to go for the $$, but perhaps I'm misreading this. Sure, if you could get $$ without going to court he'd be ahead of the game. Sure sounds like a possible identity fraud to me. It goes without saying that step one is to pull his report, and just eyeball for yourselves where that weird address came into play. I am *NOT* on the list of folks who don't listen to Hiding90's advice. I think it's is important to read ALL the perspectives that are shared here, and then for each person to make up their own mind about what strategy they wish to take. I personally have always enjoyed Hiding's sense of humor and his straight forward logic approach to issues. He really should be a lawyer! Regardless of how I *wish* the credit world was, I've found his responses to be logical and well-thought out, and typically founded in law (frequently with citations). I miss him not posting the last few days, and hope he comes back.
Re: Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... AMEN. Hiding irritated me for about 2 seconds. Then I noticed....he was right and I was wrong. I just wish he'd tell us what he does for a living. the curiosity is killing me, lol.
Re: Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... oh i forgot...Dad pulled his reports (privacy guard) and there is a hard inquiry on there dated april 8 from these scumbags. grrrrrr
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... that was the first thing he did. sorry, forgot to put that in my story, lol. (was trying to keep things as consice as possible) anyway, citibank had NO record of him at all. However, they did say that on a debt that old, IF they ever had his info, they probably wouldve gotten rid of it a long time ago. Now, thats just what some CSR told him. I agree that entities like citibank keep a record of 'those who've sinned' against them, lol. Especially if the CA 'just' got this account from their 'client', which is what they claimed. if they 'just' got it, then citibank would still have a record of him, i would think.
Re: Re: I gotta help my dad... Your dad has an inquiry from them, which only indicates they are attempting to get money from him, but you already know that. Did his report, or any of his reports, show the other address, as they had claimed it did? They used their claim that the report showed the other address to support their claim that your dad was the actual debtor, and justify their right to attempt to collect, including pulling the inquiry. If there was not in fact the other address on any of your dad's reports they pulled, then they are blowing smoke to cover their a**es. In addition, they may have used deceptive statements to attempt to collect a debt that your dad may have no connection with. You might want to check out the following parts of FDCPA: "�§ 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e] A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section: ..." "�§ 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k] (a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of -- (1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure; (2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; ..." "(b) In determining the amount of liability in any action under subsection (a), the court shall consider, among other relevant factors -- (1) in any individual action under subsection (a)(2)(A), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, and the extent to which such noncompliance was intentional; ..." If the other address is NOT on any of your dad's reports, that would appear to make their statements that it is "intentional".
