I have a question.

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by cap1sucks, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. cap1sucks

    cap1sucks Well-Known Member

    We all have a great number of rights. In fact, we have so many rights that most of us don't even know what all of our rights are.
    We have the right to freedom of speech, the right to freedom of religion, the right to freely congregate for any lawful purpose, the right to freedom of information about government, the right to be secure in our homes, the right to travel, the right to contract, the right to marry and divorce, the right to own property, the right to life, the right to the pursuit of happiness and the list goes on and on but what is the most valuable right that we have? Who can tell me what that single most important right is?
     
  2. RUGER

    RUGER Well-Known Member

    the right to have rights,because we are having more and more taken away each day
     
  3. cap1sucks

    cap1sucks Well-Known Member

    I believe that is a partially correct answer but it raises the additional question of what gives us the right to have rights? Are our rights God given or are they granted to us by the government or by the Constitution or who? We can't say that all of our rights are God given nor does the Constitution give us our rights because it was originally designed to limit government and what it can or cannot do. Of course, many of the things that government does are not authorized by the Constitution. The Constitution does not give us the right to have rights nor does any law that I know of but it does protect that right. But what does the Constitution call that right?
     
  4. ccbob

    ccbob Well-Known Member

    Nobody or nothing gives you any rights. You have the rights you work (fight) for. Having rights is not a stable state. As soon as you have some rights, there are some people who want to take them away for their own gain. When you have earned some rights, you then have the responsibility to defend them, sometimes vigorously.

    At the microscopic level, the FDCPA gives you certain protections, protections that are constantly under attack. It is up to each and every individual to defend those rights or they'll disappear. This is true for consumer protection rights, free speech rights, and any other rights granted by the Bill of Rights.

    There's no free lunch.
     
  5. cap1sucks

    cap1sucks Well-Known Member

    The truth of the matter is that we have a great many different types of rights. There are, of course, great differences between rights and protections. Consumer protection is not necessarily a right but rather a protection as you have pointed out.

    Both of you have referred to what I believe is the most important right of all and that is the right to due process of law. It seems to me that if it were not for the right to due process of law we would not then have the right to address our greviences either with other individuals or with government. I also believe that it is the single most abused right that we have. If we are to enforce any other right of which we have or think we have been denied then we must have the right to due process of law or we have no rights at all other than those which the other fellow is wiling to give us.

    Even though the right to due process of law is guaranteed under the Constitution it is the single most denied right of all. The legal profession is the profession that is supposed to protect and uphold that right yet they are the very ones who most frequently act to deprive us of that and other rights. They constantly do that by using fear, misinformation and outright obfuscation as their tools. They rely on the fact that most of us do not understand our rights and how to defend them and even if we do we often fear to use that knowledge. Our schools fail to teach us what our rights are and how to defend them. What I see all over the net are people who are afraid to go to court and defend their rights. They want nothing to do with the court system so how can they hope to defend their rights if they fear the court system? This is a problem that must be cured somehow and the only way to do that is through education. People must be empowered through knowledge to know and understand (for example) that even though they may owe a debt they have the right to be treated with dignity and respect and that their rights are just as important as the plaintiff's right to collect.
     
  6. jjgross

    jjgross Well-Known Member

    The most important right we have is to amend the constitution,as first written,Women,blacks and indians had no rights,children had no rights,poor had no rights,so i think that is the most important right.
     
  7. cap1sucks

    cap1sucks Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is an important right indeed but how is that done? There are, of course, at least two ways. One is by congressional (legislative) action and the other is through the court system and the right to due process of law. Let's take one of the most publicized cases as an example, that of Rosa Parks. As most of us know she was jailed for refusing to sit at the back of the bus. The case was litigated all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court which ended segregation. Another is Roe V. Wade. That too was litigated all the way through the court system and decided by the Supreme Court. Due process of law again. In fact, most amendments to the Constitution have been accomplished through the court system. So again, without due process of law that would not have been possible.

    Those and hundreds more are positive examples where due process of law gained us important protections and advancements of our society. But what about the negative side? For instance, let us imagine that Joe Sixpack goes before a judge on a credit card case because he failed to pay his debt. Joe knows a bit about defending such cases so he filed a denial as his response, prepared his certificate of mailing and filed timely. He also sent a copy of his denial to the plaintiff and a timely demand for validation as well as a good list of admissions including demands that the plaintiff admit they had no affidavits on file, had no accounting of the alleged debt, had no agreement between the parties and more. The plaintiff immediately responded with denials and did so within about 15 days after receipt. They also immediately filed motion for summary judgment and at the hearing the judge asked Joe point blank whether or not he ever had a credit card account with the bank. What violations did the plaintiff commit and how did it deny Joe his due process rights under the law? Did the judge give Joe his full due process rights under the law or did he somehow deny Joe his due process of law? If so, how?

    If the plaintiff violated either some law or somehow denied Joe his due process rights under the law how can he proceed to defend and enforce those rights?

    If the judge denied Joe his due process rights under the law how can Joe proceed to defend and enforce those rights?

    If Joe don't know what violations the plaintiff committed and don't know how to protect himself or don't know what due process rights they violated or is not willing to stand up and defend those rights, does not have the money to hire an attorney or can't find one to take his case then he has no protections under the law and he may as well not have any due process rights either.

    Same for the judge. If the judge violates Joe's right to due process under the law and Joe doesn't know how to recognize that his rights to a fair and impartial hearing have been trampled on and don't know how to do anything but stand there shaking in his boots then he has no due process rights at all.

    So once again, the key is education and our schools are certainly not doing their job in that department. A prominent judge recently said that once a student graduates from a law school s/he may have about 8 percent of the knowledge necessary to be an attorney. The rest of it has to be learned through experience and continued education through the years.
     

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