According to http://www.carreonandassociates.com/newbreedcollections.html A debt collector cannot sue you legally is the debt is past the SOL: The most important things to remember is: -You cannot be harassed -They cannot tell third parties about the debt. -They cannot call you after 9pm or before 8am -They cannot threaten you or use scare tactics -They cannot legally sue you for an expired debt *THIS ONE ABOVE* -They cannot contact you once you put them on notice not to -They must be able to verify the validity of the debt I was recently threatened with a judgement by a debt collector and was so scared by them that I payed everything they asked so I wouldn't get garnished. I didn't know the laws then and didn't know my rights. I've paid the total that was asked by the debt collectors out of fear of the judgement. 1) Can I countersue them for threatening me with a judgement to collect money when it was illegal for them to do so ? 2) I made the final installment payment August 15th so this is very recent. 3) I'd love to get a NASTY attorney on these debt collectors if this was a legal collection. Honestly I don't want the moeny. I'd rather have them face the embarassment. Even to this day they won't send me a PAID in FULL letter. They keep saying it's being sent but it never arrives. Background: The OC was Discover Card. The SOL began on the day the LAST payment was made according to law which would be around DEC 1995. The SOL for open accounts (credit card accounts) for which the contract was signed and the debt was incurred = 4 years; moreover, the SOL for the state I've been sued in is 4 years which makes this debt legally UNenforceable as of DEC 1999. Please tell me I can go after these folks.
This sounds like extortion to me. Using illegal means to extract moeny from a party. In this case threatening with a judgement when the orignal debt was no longer legally enfroceable ?
TOTALLY UNTRUE They can sue you. It is YOUR responsibility to raise the SOL as a defense in court. If you do not and do not even show up, the Judgement will be made in default. Once they obtain a default judgement past the SOL there are remedies, but you CAN be sued and they can obtain judgement when debt is past the SOL date. -Peace, Dave
In fact, this is a dircet quote from the Carreon and Associates WebSite (http://www.carreonandassociates.com/sol.htm): The term statute of limitations means the time allotted to legally enforce the debt. If a statute expires and someone sues you, It is up to you to bring the expired SOL defense to the other parties attention. If you say nothing or do not bring up the expired statute then the judgment can be entered. Don't assume it means the other party is barred from attempting to collect. It simply means that your defense is the expired SOL not to enforce the lawsuit. I think you mis-interpreted their answers. -Peace, Dave
Ok well the judgment was never entered. We agreed out of court that I'd pay the debt and the judgement would not be entered unless I defaulted on repaying the debt in 5 days. What I received was a summons so it never went into judgement. My point is, can they use the court system to threaten me to pay some debt if it's legally uncollectable ? They used the law to collect something that was legally unenforceable. That period of time had expired. It's like a cop telling you you must tell him the truth or else he will sentence you to prison. Only a Judge/Jury can do that not the cop. The cop used his power under the law to threaten you with something he cannot do legally. Thats my point. There has to be something I can do.
Just happen to catch this thread and yes the article was mis-read slightly. When it referenced to "They cannot legally sue you for an expired debt" it meant that you have an absolute defense and cannot lose if you use the SOL. It did not mean that they can't attempt it, you just have to defend it with the SOL and then legally they cannot touch you.
Can you turn them into the Attorney General of your state, or of the state they are in? Can you send a letter to the BBB? I don't know if these suggestions will help, but at least you will get their name out there for them to know this place is acting illegally/badly, etc. I wish you can do something, and I wish you luck. 4kristi: I live/lived at your website when I was studying the sol stuff. Sorry edoggie about going off topic ;-)
Aha... from the legal newsgroups... I just have to find the exact text law. i'm going after these bastards! "By the way, it is against the FDCA law for a collection agency to threaten you with "legal action" if they know your debt is beyond the SOL." Isn't filing a judgment legal action ? Help me find the FDCA law that has this . I'm searching myself now. I don't want money but I want payback. It turns out I didn't even owe the mount they asked; moreover the amount of the judgment and the amount of the settlement were NOT the same. They asked for more during the settlement. I know I was dumb to go through with this but I was scared and did not know the law.
FDCPA not FDCA. It is against the law for a collection agency to use deceptive practices when collecting a debt...that is in the FDCPA (read the faq under the "where are the pertinent laws" section). It would be difficult to prove though unless you can show that you informed them the debt was past the SOL and the ignored your letter...they will show up in court and claim they have a different DOLA and therefore they will skate on the issue that they "knew" it was past SOL when they threatened suit. It is do-able....but as I said above you should investigate validation and verification first. You will build up MANY more violations that waym and that will only ADD to your claim that they used deceptive collection practices when/if you bring them to court. -Peace, Dave
It's FDCPA, Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, located here: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm § 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1962e] A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section: 2) The false representation of -- (A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or (B) any services rendered or compensation which may be lawfully received by any debt collector for the collection of a debt. 4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action. (5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken. In some states it is illegal to pursue collection after the SOL has expired, for the rest of us it appears to be a gray caselaw area. I posted about this yesterday here -- actually I think it came up in 2 or 3 threads yesterday, this seems to be going around. http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...1267#post241267 It's lengthy, sorry, just cut down to the sending a cease and desist and including "any and all communication, direct and indirect" and see WhyChat's sample letter. Whatever you do, I discovered in researching today, do not acknowledge the debt as yours or make any arrangements or agree to have it put on a new credit card -- that's just what they want you to do. However, the problem you are going to have is that you paid it. Which is the point of the contact -- paying, acknowledging, agreeing -- it tolls the SOL in most states. And, all you have to refute that you paid is a verbal threat, which is awfully hard to prove when the he said/she said's start flying. Sassy
Just fixing your URL link. http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=241267#post241267 Actually, I would add the one you posted prior to that one: http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=241264#post241264 Excellent post Sassy. Doin' the Bump! LOL -Peace, Dave
LOL Dave, You crack me up! BUMPING on the illegally sued thread with Dave, where's the music? Thanks for fixing the links. Sassy
Sassy THANKS!!! This is what I needed: (a) The seeking or obtaining of any written statement or acknowledgment in any form containing an affirmation of any obligation by a debtor who has been declared bankrupt, ***an acknowledgment of a debt barred by a statute of limitations, or a waiver of any legal right of a debtor, without clearly disclosing the nature and consequences of such affirmation or waiver and the fact that the debtor is not legally obligated to make such affirmation or waiver*****; provided, however, that this provision does not prohibit the accepting of promises to pay that are voluntarily written and offered by the debtor; This is from Vermont law but I pray Jersey has the same. I think it's about time to get one of those greedy sue happy attorneys. Like I said I don't wnat money. I want to smile at them in their faces.
It's in my head Sass, lean closer..can't you hear it? LOL BUMP Hey e-doggie, I really believe you should consider building up your violations through validation. It will help you build your case against the CA as well as increase your potential lawsuit award $$. Not only that but if this is on your reports, you may find that it is easier to remove that way. You can still sue after they remove it, if that is your intention, as it seems to be. If lawsuit is ALL you are looking for, it will still be your advantage to have more FDCPA violations against the CA that the one. JMO that's the last time I'll bring it up. -Peace, Dave
DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!! I put my ear up to the speaker and I CAN hear it, bump bump bump ;-) edoggie, Not only do I hear the music in Dave's head and we're bumping, I'm flying with him on the validation too. You have to have more than the verbal back and forths, in my bumping sassy opinion. Sassy
Good point, kiyi! edoggie says debt collector and says the OC was discover, never does clarify more than that. Who did you cut a deal with edoggie, discover? If it's discover, don't hang your hat on the FDCPA! Sassy
Discover WAS the OC but they sold the account to BANG_ME_WITH_NO_GREASE Financial. BANG_ME_WITH_NO_GREASE Finacial got one of their lawyer debt collectors, HOUNDDOGS_INC to file suit. BANG_ME_WITH_NO_GREASE finacial alledgedly owns the account now. Remeber they did not process the judgement on the agreement I paid them what they asked. Guys I'd love to have these folk for dinner I'm calling a lawyer today but please add anything you can think of for more firepower. I'm not disclosing named because this is a potential lawsuit and I don't want to reveal names until the suit has started/is over. Thanks Another thing, I'd love to send Validation but I'm running out of time. The FDCPA states I have to file suit within one year of hte violation of the Statute of Limitations is up. They placed their judgment in Otober of last year and they finished wrenching money out of me as of about 60-90 days ago. I think I have to file when they initially commited the violation which means waiting for violation is not a smart thing to do... I'll still order validation but I'm filing suit way before then.
*UPDATE* Just got off the phone with an attorney who told me to sue Debt Collectors for illegally collecting on a time-barred debt. He stated their actions violated the FDCRA. Maybe the judge will even award me the moeny back I paid them since they obtained it illegally ?
Again I gotta ask...What the heck is the FDCRA???????? Federal Debt Collectors Reality Act? Are you SURE he didn't say FDCPA????? -Peace, Dave PS Edog, there is nothing that says you have one year from the SOL running out to validate. I say Validate Validate Validate Validate. It can not hurt you past SOL. This one really is the last time I will espouse that though, I swear.
