I noticed your post in another thread and will pass along some info I found posted on this board and on Bayhouse a few weeks ago. You can have unpaid IRS liens withdrawn by the IRS under a new law passed last year. I have already sent in my request and of course, since it's the government, it may take a while to get a response. But for the first time in a long time I think it may actually be possible to get them off my back (well, more off my reports than off my back), but I digress. Here's the thread with the info. http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=185109#post185109 Hope it helps. I was incredibly encouraged to see this info posted and hope it proves to be a help to lots of folks who didn't know about it. All the best! DemPooches
DemPooches Thanks for the great info. I have people that come to me looking for mortgages thatthis will help tremendously. Please keep me and the rest of the board informed as to your progress on this matter. fla-tan
Yes, I will definitely keep everyone up to speed on the results. What I will really be interested to see is if anyone can manage to get rid of a PAID tax lien this way. It seems almost a no-brainer for the withdrawal of the unpaid lien to be for the good of the US if it allows the taxpayer to gain financing or enter into payroll deduction repayment program. What is trickier is trying to determine how to convince the IRS that it would be in the best interest of the US for a PAID lien to be withdrawn. DemPooches
dempooches- I have posted-long..on that thread. This is a subject I am very well versed on...I have paid alot of $$$s to professionals. Read my post and let me know if you have any questions. I have both a tax atty and a CPA so if I don't know the answer I can get it! Thanx, clc
dempooches, If you have PAID the underlying taxes for which the lien was filed...then go to irs.gov and look for publication 1450. That publication will tell you the forms necessary in order to get your lien released. Remember the irs is a bureaucracy...it only moves when the correct forms are sent...hope this helps. clc
clc, I'm dealing with two different tax lien situations. The first are paid state liens. Sales tax related, business, sole proprietorship. The second are federal income tax, personal, unpaid. The reason I was musing about the possibility of someone getting a paid federal tax lien withdrawn is that as I'm sure you know, released liens damage the credit score as much as unpaid ones. Withdrawal seems like the only way of getting rid of a lien entirely without waiting 7 years after payment for it to drop off. When I see someone post about a paid federal lien, I'd like to be able to offer some kind of suggestion that would result in deletion. Of course there is always the method of disputing repeatedly and hoping for it to slip through the cracks, but hopefully that won't be the only available technique. BTW, in your dealings with liens, have you ever filed to have a lien withdrawn? I haven't run into anyone who has thus far. I'd love to hear about the results. DemPooches
DemPooches, How are things going with your state tax lien and what state is it? My sister has one in NJ and it is almost paid off. I am telling her to ask for a withdrawal of the tax lien once it is paid off. Is this possible and a good approach?
Our paid tax liens are for business-related sales tax in South Carolina. It is a BEAR trying to make anything happen with them at all. They are paid and released but only for two years so we'll probably have to live with them for 5 more years. In advising you about the lien you're trying to help with, I have seen nothing in the documentation of the Taxpayer Bill of Rights from last year that indicated a PAID tax lien could be a candidate for withdrawal. The primary reason is that once it is paid, there seems no reason that it is in the best interest of the US for it to be withdrawn. In the best interest of the taxpayer, sure but not in the best interest of the US. If you read through the documentation from the links above that lead to another thread about this, you'll see that the examples to illustrate the 4 reasons which can be used to request withdrawal involve making it easier for the IRS to COLLECT the money owed, or making it faster for the IRS to collect the money owed. It all comes down to them geting their money. Once they've got it, I'm afraid the taxpayer has little to bargain with. About all you normally can get out of a paid lien is a release and then the lien still remains on the reports 7 years after it's paid. I'm interested to see if anyone does attempt to have a paid lien withdrawn and what rationale and method they use if it is successful. The CreditNet group is pretty resourceful, so I wouldn't ever count this bunch out in accomplishing just about anything. Please keep in mind that I am not an expert, I have not spent the kind of money that others have in obtaining good advice from tax lawyers and CPA's on this topic. I am simply passing on information that looks like it might prove helpful in my case, and providing results when or if I have any. I have no results to report as of yet, except to say that paid liens are VERY difficult to have removed by the CRAs prior to the 7 years passing. All the best! DemPooches
Thanks for answering! I will tell her to consult an attorney maybe they can find a reason to get it off her reports. I just wish I could help her. She had perfect credit and a gazillion cards until that got on there, now her credit score it lower than mine!
dempooches- The important question is whether your unpaid taxes are due on returns that were filed or on unfiled returns. There is NO statute of limitations on unfiled returns...the irs can chase you even after you're dead and gone by attaching to your estate. If the taxes are paid you most certainly can get a lien release. On your credit reports it will usually have the lien and the notation "satisfied"...and that may stay on your CR for awhile. hope this helps. clc
These are unpaid but filed. Yes, I could pay and get a release, but that means 7 more years with liens and it has been our experience that with tax liens "satisfied" or "released" is still VERY detrimental to the score. We sent the request for withdrawal a couple of weeks ago. We also know the SOL is almost up on one of the liens unless the IRS renews the it. As I'm sure you can tell, our issue is definitely not one of not wanting to pay, quite the contrary, we DO want to pay. We just want to minimize the damages to our credit for the next 7 years and are hoping the request for withdrawal will be the means to that end. Do you know of anyone who has successfully (or unsuccessfully) requested withdrawal? Thanks again very much for your help. DemPooches
Yes I know of people having liens released (withdrawn) because of the 4 reasons listed below: 1. it is paid in full or there is an existing installment agreement. 2. If there was a procedural error in the filing of the lien. 3. If releasing the lien will be in the best of the irs.(I explained this in detail on another thread). 4. the taxes were discharged in bankruptcy. If you are successful in getting the irs to withdraw a lien because you wrote and asked for it...please share! hope this helps, clc
clc, I just noticed something in your post which I hope you can help me with. You are using the terms "released" and "withdrawn" interchangeably. It was my understanding that a lien is released if it is paid and the release shows potential creditors that it is no longer in effect, but the fact that it existed still remains on the credit report. I understood "withdrawal" of a lien to mean that the notice of filing is removed from the court records and from the debtor's credit files. I believe the phrase I read was something to the effect of collection proceeding as though the notice of the lien had never been filed. And it would follow, if the notice of the lien was never filed, then there should not have to be anything sent later to indicate the lien was satisfied. As far as the CRAs would be concerned, the lien wouldn't exist. Have I misunderstood this? DemPooches
I put the word "withdrawn" in parentheses as it was your word not mine. Liens can only be released not withdrawn. A levy can be withdrawn...which means if the irs took something from you by mistake they have to give it back...that is a withdrawn levy. If an irs lien is satisfied 100% you can file for a lien release...read irs publication 1450. In that case the irs will remove it from your credit report. What usually remains on a credit report is a lien whose underlying taxes were not paid 100%...as in the case of a bankruptcy. then the lien remains on your CR as "satisfied"...which usually is an indication that it wasn't paid 100%. Since bankruptcies stay on one's credit report for 7-10 years people usually don't care that a lien is there with the notation "satisfied" as it will drop off after 7 anyway. I am not an atty but I talked with my tax atty today about this subject and he said "there is now way in hell the irs will release a lien on unpaid taxes" unless it met the four requirements I already outlined earlier in this thread. If you get a lien released without meeting any of those requirements both he and I would love to hear about it. clc
dempooches- here is the irs site for publication 1450. you must have Adobe for this. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1450.pdf Th irs released my lien because it was filed in the wrong county...this is very rare...I just lucked out. hope this heps. clc
Thanks for the link to pub 1450, I'll keep it in reserve if my request doesn't pan out. I'll definitely post when I hear back from the IRS. I don't expect it to be quickly, knowing how the government works, but we'll see what happens. Thanks for all your time in responding. I appreciate it. DemPooches
dempooches, the irs will withdraw a lien (meaning it never existed) if it was procedurally incorrect. OR if you want to finance the payment of the tax with equity in the property to which the lien attaches...BUT (and this is the clincher) the equity must be 2x the taxes due...and if they do withdraw on this condition they will refile the lien lickety-split if you don't pay them...and they will get nasty! after the reforms of '98 the irs was supposed to be the friendlier irs...but that term is relative...because b4 the hearings in '97 and the reforms in '98 they were monsters...now they are mini-monsters. Remember that while you are waiting for the irs to respond the meter is ticking...interest and penalties...IMO you should just spen a couple of hundred $$$s and get the advice of a professional..either a tax CPA or a tax atty...if the CPA is an EA which means "enrolled agent" he is certified by the irs to represent taxpayers in front of the irs. Also due to reforms their is EA/client privilege...which is just like atty/client privilege...so a CPA/EA does not have to divulge any ingo to the irs. good luck, clc
Guy's, Be sure to see the following link at the IRS page; http://www.irs.gov/advocate/display/0,,i1=55&genericId=13272,00.html In part: "Taxpayer Advocate Service We help taxpayers solve problems with the IRS and recommend changes that will prevent them. Problem Solving The Taxpayer Advocate Service is an IRS program that provides an independent system to assure that tax problems, which have not been resolved through normal channels, are promptly and fairly handled. The National Taxpayer Advocate, Nina Olson, heads the program. Each state and service center has at least one local Taxpayer Advocate, who is independent of the local IRS office and reports directly to the National Taxpayer Advocate. The goals of the Taxpayer Advocate Service are to protect individual taxpayer rights and to reduce taxpayer burden. The Taxpayer Advocate independently represents your interests and concerns within the IRS. This is accomplished in two ways: Ensuring that taxpayer problems, which have not been resolved through normal channels, are promptly and fairly handled; Identifying issues that increase burden or create problems for taxpayers: Bringing those issues to the attention of IRS management and making legislative proposals where necessary." I know some of these people and they remind me of Mr. Cooke at Cap 1, (some of them). It may be helpfull to have your own advocate working on your behalf. Good Luck, B.
