Hi, I'm newly subscribed to the forum, but have been studying and trying to learn from the experienced posters here for the past two years. My history: Had to file Ch7 BK in 02-combination of business failure, overextension (too too many cc's)and medical illness requiring hospitalization (underinsured) (i'm fine now) Easy, no asset case, was discharged without incident. Live in paid-for home provided by parents-bought first/only car right out of college in '90. 100% Positive credit with no marks until 02. Now am re-established in my business ($90-100,000 annual income) attempting to clean up and reestablish credit. Have three unsolicited cards 9.9% unsecured (300-2500-5,000 limits) Three store accounts (2 survived Bk-had one for 16 years) Recently paid down all except a couple-leaving a bit on to keep establishing timely payment history. FICO via TU 600. Which leads me to my issue: Beloved 16 year old car is on her last leg. Income is good now - decided that a new car is in order and auto loan would help re-build. (old auto tradeline fell off before bk) Denied x1 already. Dealer pulled. Told me I need cosigner-period. Checked my Equifax report and it is showing under summary that I have debt of $19,000! Totally Not True. Lots of inaccuracies showing that were not in other reports. It looks horrible because I have no rent or mortgage, my auto line is gone... it looks like i'm nothing more than charged off cc's; previously bankrupt and on top of that... the lie about being 19,000 in debt! No wonder the salesguy from the dealership sounded strange when he called. I must look like a complete LIAR. (I explained the truth of my situation to him at our first meeting) I'm not sure how to proceed. I need a new car asap. I have a $6,000 DP. But was sure financing (although higher) wouldn't be too difficult to obtain. Obviously I have not prepared well at all; yet I don't want to get discouraged. I've already picked out the car I want and everything. They're still holding it for me... Please help.
if you could join a local credit union they have very good rates and might be easier to deal with to obtain auto financing. With $6000 DP you should be able to get something...also maybe try at LendingTree.com?
Thanks for the response pd11604! Good suggestions. I wish I had access to a CU. I am going to look into it. Lending Tree was pushing me for a home eq. line of credit. Don't want to go that route. Update on the Situation as of this am: I just got turned down by roadloans, but i'm sure it's because of the seeming $19,000 debt. I haven't even called them to tell them about the mistakes on the report yet. I was reading more on here last night, and someone said that it's all in the attitude. "If you go into a dealership acting "subprime" that's how you'll get treated!" So, I got some guts and called up my salesguy and hopefully turned the tables somewhat. I told him that there were outright lies showing up on my report and I insisted that he help me get to the bottom of it all. I also told him that it was ridiculous for me to have to get a cosigner with that much DP and that my "potential cosigner" was encouraging me to walk away from the entire thing because of it. Well, that got me a prompt callback from the F&I guy who now "wants me in this car". We went over the Credit report line by line and I told him I had proof that I absolutely do not owe that much money to anyone. He says that he is going to do some "heavy negotiating for me with the bank and make this happen." Guess the dealer is working for me now? Will see.
Don't be surprised if their "heavy negotiating" ends up with you getting a loan at a high interest rate! You know the dealer will get their percentage too! What you need to do is fix those entries on your CR If you really need the car I guess you'll have to get the loan they set up for you...maybe down the road when your CR's are correct you can negotiate / refinacnce for a better rate good luck
Don't be surprised if their "heavy negotiating" ends up with you getting a loan at a high interest rate! You know the dealer will get their percentage too! you're absolutely right! I thought about that. The rate will probably be astronomical. it's still as if they're doing me a favor. humph! Mr. F&I left me a message while I was out. Couldn't read the tone of his voice, so not sure what's going on now. He didn't sound too enthusiastic. I'm prepared to walk away at this point-especially if it looks like i'm going to be taken advantage of. If this car is mine already, I will surely have it! However, i'm certainly glad I found out that the issue is with inaccurate credit info and reporting. I'm better prepared if I do have to go into another dealership. I'm doing my cleanup as we speak. I just got a hold of the account that is reporting me delinquent by thousands of dollars. I let them have it! They gave me a special number to have any loan people call to verify that it's their fault. I also have to fax the info to receive written confirmation of their agreement to update. this saga continues If you really need the car I guess you'll have to get the loan they set up for you...maybe down the road when your CR's are correct you can negotiate / refinacnce for a better rate The car is one that retains alot of it's value over time, so this would be a good plan. Going to look into this as well. Learning the importance of planning ahead.
Update for anyone interested: Mr. F&I called to let me know that "it looks good" and "I should receive a very decent rate." !!! Excellent. I now have to provide some documents and then make sure that all loan terms will be to my favor. Also, at my insistance, the offensive accounts in question have faxed me confirmation that they will be removing the tradelines from my report completely. So far so good. Only a couple more hurdles to go. My positive, empowered attitude has made a huge difference as well as the invaluable advice here!
As you said in the earlier post: Congratulations on going in with a "prime attitude" and getting a good deal!
Thanks pd11604! I will keep that "prime attitude" on max for a few more days- at least until I get my hands on that steering wheel! haha The last hurdle is their approval of my income documentation. They asked for verification because i'm self employed. I believe what I gave them will fly. on track, Two old accounts were still reporting me as delinquent, when in fact one was included in the BK and the other had been PAID prior to the BK! The high balances of those two old accounts were still being added to my current existing cc debt of 4,000! I will pay that 4,000 off when I get this auto tradeline showing. That will be my only recurring bill-except utilities. I'll be using cash for anything else I want to buy for the time being. I've learned my lesson on using ccs. I've also learned my CreditNet Lesson! CHECK THOSE CREDIT REPORTS REGULARLY, PAY ATTENTION TO ANY DISCREPANCIES AND DISPUTE, DISPUTE, DISPUTE!
The Saga Continues. So my saleman and Mr. F&I called today to let me know they were happy with some of my documents I provided, but apparently these two think the bank will want more. (or maybe they're just nosey?) They want to get into really personal territory here and i'm not liking it. I understand that they need to see that I have income; and I provided great detail about where all of my money comes from; as well as written proof and documentation of all my sales going back one whole year. I'm not convinced that they need to see exactly how much money I have in my bank account! They stressed that it would be completely confidential. Yeah, Right. They already have my social-fine. They already have a (refundable) check off my account holding the car- fine. BUT, Now they want all my bank account numbers, balances and tax returns to go with with that! Whoa. Wait a minute. I think it would be naive for me to expose myself in that way. Anyone agree or disagree? What with ID theft at an all time high. And who's to say that once they have all this info, that the loan will go through and be in my favor anyway? Besides, what ever happened to the concept of the vehicle being considered collateral? I even sent documentation of my insurance coverage for the thing!!! I'm getting sort of hot. Is this some kind of car dealer tactic? or is this standard procedure and I'm being paranoid? Since Mr F&I said that I was probably looking at a decent rate anyway, i'm wondering if I should let them know that i'm prepared to get that same "decent rate" somewhere else? I'm going over there in the morning. Anybody have any advice on this aspect of the game? I don't recall experiencing this much drama when I bought my first car.
I don't know..it sounds like they are playing "games". I understand that your case is a little different since you are self-employed, but it looks like they are trying to get you more and more committed to buy, then - wham - something is "wrong" and that great rate is now $XX higher because of bla bla bla, etc. I would tell them look either we have a deal or we don't, and if not, you will take your $6000 DP and look elsewhere
I don't know..it sounds like they are playing "games". I understand that your case is a little different since you are self-employed, but it looks like they are trying to get you more and more committed to buy, then - wham - something is "wrong" and that great rate is now $XX higher because of bla bla bla, etc. You have good BS radar! haha Something's fishy. They are playing car dealer games, and your reasoning sounds right on. I have a feeling they are trying to get me financed for more than the price of the car for some reason. I asked him how much they are trying to finance and he stuttered. humph. They are pushing this directly through the car makers credit division. (which i'll admit would look great on my report-i'd be able to get anything I wanted with such a tradeline showing positively) But, i'm not good at jumping through hoops. haha I went by there to leave the paperwork requested-minus the bank account numbers and balances. I printed sales and deposits for one bank account. Also left 2 years tax returns schedule c only. I told my sales guy I would not be giving up anything else and if it didn't go on this, to call it off and i'd start over with my own financing. He got real quiet. Games. I would tell them look either we have a deal or we don't, and if not, you will take your $6000 DP and look elsewhere Exactly! I've also decided not to put this much down anymore. I believe 10 percent is sufficient-but I didn't mention this. If they want games, I can come up with some of my own. I will not be taken advantage of! I'm giving them until end of next week (that will be two weeks working) to get it straight and hand it over with a win-win. I knew I was going to be a target going in. They 'saw me coming' - Like Little Red Riding Hood. haha Thanks for following my little auto buying soap opera pd. I'll keep updating.
I'm glad you know their game and can deal with them BTW see if there is a Credit Union near you. You would be surprised how easily you might qualify for membership, and try to get the financing through them. Good luck!
If you have an alternative offer from another lender, such as a credit union, you don't have to feel you are backed in a corner. Also you aren't letting disclosure of your full financial picture compromise your negotiation for the best price, separate from the best loan terms. You need to know when to walk from their lending terms, just like there is a point to walk from the whole deal.
If you have an alternative offer from another lender, such as a credit union, you don't have to feel you are backed in a corner. Also you aren't letting disclosure of your full financial picture compromise your negotiation for the best price, separate from the best loan terms. You need to know when to walk from their lending terms, just like there is a point to walk from the whole deal. Thanks for the solid advice on track. I'm glad to have a place to hash this out. They think I have a potential alternative lender already because I told them from day one that i'd been "pre-approved', but "hadn't accepted yet" because of the rate. They asked what was the offered rate - I quoted a medium figure and that is when they said they would try to beat that for me. I do need to go ahead and put this into action as a REAL plan B. Also you aren't letting disclosure of your full financial picture compromise your negotiation for the best price, separate from the best loan terms. Can full financial disclosure compromise negotiations because they are aware of exactly what you can afford? That is what I was thinking (maybe incorrctly) and it's why I refused to give bank acct numbers and balances. I told sales guy that in my estimation, "all the finance people needed know was that I in fact have income". He was quiet when I said that. Then followed up with, he wouldn't ask me for anything that the company wouldn't need. I'm suspicious that sleas (haha freudian typo?) - I mean sales guy and Mr. F&I want to know bank balances for their own purposes. So they can figure out a way to jack up the price of the car in the end. I just get the feeling they're not telling me everything. But then again, I could be paranoid form reading so much negative car dealer stuff. A friend of mine suggested that my financing has already been approved and they're just jerking my chain to cause anxiety and create desperation for whatever deal they put in front of me. Mind games maybe? haha see if there is a Credit Union near you. You would be surprised how easily you might qualify for membership, pd, I took your advice and just looked online for credit unions in my state. I found one for my alma mater! Thanks for pushing this! I will go ahead and join. But i've still got to wait till all my reports are clear before applying for anything else. i'm going out for a martini with friends. it's been a hectic week. When i finally get behind the wheel of that baby, it will feel great because i'm "earning" it!
Any lender may very well want to know your income. It's basic lending practice that the lender depends on the borrower's ability to pay, colateral if things go wrong, and borrower's historical pattern of paying as promised. FICO 600 isn't high, though others may have a clearer picture of how much this affects terms. Also if your income is from your own business, a lender might require more documentation for the best terms. It's a potential risk, though so is working for someone else. The problem is if you don't have an independent point of reference for what market terms are. Just like if you combine a trade-in with a purchase, your deal might have a good trade-in amount, but a high sale price that takes it back, or vice-versa. If the loan is packaged with the sale, the sale price could be good, but the loan terms high, with the seller being paid by the lender for selling you on a higher interest rate. Is the whole package a good deal? You can't know unless you know what the car can go for in a cash only deal, and you know what money would cost you in a loan only deal. The car manufacturers can offer good terms, but you don't know how good they are unless you can separate out the components of the deal, even if you finally buy the whole package thru the dealer.
"In for a penny, in for a pound" Psychologically, we get committed to the deal we think we have, but it isn't the same deal if the terms start changing. Salesmen know this. But it can also work both ways. All decisions, including whether to proceed or pull out, must involve choices between the complete alternatives. This is basic.
The problem is if you don't have an independent point of reference for what market terms are. I understand. True. I've heard and read online that the 'cash price' on this model is generally full msrp or very little off. Not sure if that's true. If the loan is packaged with the sale, the sale price could be good, but the loan terms high, Ahhhh, now it makes more sense. This is why they won't directly address my questions about the loan and price of the car separately! They are waiting to see what rate their bank quotes so they can rig the numbers. If the bank offers me a "decent" rate, then the price of the car will magically rise in the end. If the rate is higher, then there is room for them to lower the price and "give me more of a bargain". Does this sound right on track? I need to find out what the car would cost by itself if I were paying cash. Is there a way to do this with these two at this point? I may have to go to another dealership afterall. Only problem, no other dealer in my city has this exact model with my preferences. Is the whole package a good deal? Don't know yet. Depends on what they come back with on the rate. I know what i'm willing-able to accept for both. I want best rate AND best sale price. Psychologically, we get committed to the deal we think we have, but it isn't the same deal if the terms start changing. Salesmen know this. But it can also work both ways. Can you elaborate on how it works both ways?
You can go to another dealership and specify exactly the color, features etc that you want in this vehicle and the dealership will search for it and do what is called a courtesy delivery. You should be able to talk them down to about 15% under the asking price.
Is all this through one dealership? What car is this that you are trying to buy? Also, perhaps you contact the finance Director for another dealer in your area. Have him get you pre-approved for a loan, and work from there.
