Is removeing legit bad credit ethical ?

Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

Good article LB, I agree with most of it. I have been on time with all my payments for going on 4+ years now and yet my credit looks like I am a reformed supposed deadbeat instead of a current supposed deadbeat. Life happens and gets in the way. God only knows I might have bought some shoes I did not need during my credit card hedonism days, but those shoes are long gone and I am still paying through the nose for them. Most of us pick ourselves up and move on, but then some, like the CRA's and their cronies, want to hold us captive indefinately. For sure there are crooks out there who will scam and steal, but from what I have read on the board, most people just had a streak of bad luck or a temporary insanity induced by credit cards and just want a way back into good credit land.

I figure I have done my time and they have more than made plenty of money off me. It's time to cut me loose and let me move on from my past. I have spent the better part of 4 years trying to get back in their good graces for a life situation that lasted a year and has taken for-frickin-ever to try and recover from.

 

Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

I agree that removing ledit bad credit is ethical, however I don't agree with the article and it's take on errors when it comes to credit reporting, as a justification.

I simply believe that the CRA's have no right to ANY of my personal information, so I say remove, remove, remove.

 

Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

Although I did enjoy the article, it was this statement that I found to be a bit of a paradox.
If the CRA's are misreporting information in 40%, then it seems clear that there is no ethical dilemma.
However, the topic was removing LEGIT bad credit.

Does the fact that CRA's are often inaccurate with others justify removal or your own legit bad credit?
To me, this is the '2 wrongs make a right' argument.

Please don't get me wrong, as I believe credit reporting and ethics have nothing to do with each other. Just because you had the legit debt removed, doesn't mean you don't owe the money anymore - I am still paying on a debt that I had removed.

I think the Philosophy major had reared it's head on this one.

 

Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

If, as a matter of their standard business practices, CAs ignore or skirt the law, and damage both unrelated individuals, debtors who have paid and settled, as well as those who have not paid, with little risk of accountability or liability, it degrades the financial neighborhood for even the honest people who pay their bills. The law defines what legitimate businesses can and should do. It has evolved that way in response to actual problems and abuses.

Businesses can choose to conduct themselves in a manner to avoid damage to innocent third parties, to provide accurate validation to resolve and get paid for their claims. If they choose to be sloppy, or keep poor records, for business reasons, to save costs or whatever, the point at which they cross the line is where they use lack of response, bluster, or threat as a substitute for meeting their legally defined responsibilities.

Even alleged debtors who in the end owe a debt are owed an accounting of the correctness of the claim. In the absense of this expectation, the level of behavior sinks to that of the lowest and most aggressive CA, where legitimacy no longer matters. The result is a poisoning of the accuracy of our credit system, and an undermining of the financial strength of honest consumers that also affects the security of honest creditors.

The lowest CAs do not have an interest in the continued financial health of their targets. They can afford to be predatory to collect a one-time account. Banks and retail businesses that act the same way, deservedly lose their future business.

 

Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

Bravo ontrack! I always enjoy your posts, very articulate and interesting.

 

Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

The credit reporting and credit scoring system is inherently error-prone, due to the multiple sources of incomplete information of varying quality, as well as deliberate attempts to misuse it. Any information system that cannot efficiently and rapidly correct errors will steadily accumulate them.

Scoring considers all reporters equally, without regard to their individual historical reliability. Although, on average, this can assist businesses in minimizing losses with acceptable levels of erroneous decisions, it provides no assurance that any particular individual will not be erroneously scored and damaged. If you were considering an analogous "statistical process control" problem, you would also weight your measurements by your trust or confidence in each source or method used, but credit reporting and scoring does not do this.

Demanding compliance with law is ethical. Demanding compensation for willful or negligent damaging actions contrary to law is ethical.

 

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But the thing that you are all missing here is that we are NOT talking about debts....whether paying them is ethical or not, blah blah blah.

What we are talking about is IS removing legitimate bad marks on a credit report ethical.

It is most certainly NOT. The credit reporting system, in all its flawed glory, is what gives people some way to guage our ability and intent to repay money ADVANCED to us.

It lets them judge risk.

So...if you don't like it...one way to have a really clean credit report: don't use credit. Ever.

Buy your house in cash, your cars, too.

Of course you WON'T do that...

Hey, I've been through and still am a recoverin credit damage case. But at no time did I say 'Oh gosh, all this credit given to me is someone elses fault." I used it, I didn't pay for it, then no one wanted to lend me any more because of it. 'Nuff said.

If you truly ARE reformed, creditors can and do see that and you'll be rewarded accordingly. I've known people with horrible credit that just started behaving properly and with NONE of our little tricks shared up here, completely rejuvenated their credit.

<shrugs> I guess I just get tired of people coming up here trying to find ways to offload legitimate debts through trickery.

aiki

 

Re: Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

You bring up a great point. One cannot use the advantage of a clean report to finance an automobile only to dismiss the CRAs as evil once one's credit has gone south, perhaps years later.

 

Re: Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

Nonetheless, even if you do pay your bills, and use credit responsibly, you need to track your credit reports, and know the law to prevent creditors from inadvertently or deliberately damaging you. I have always paid my bills, on time, according to all contracts, yet I have had to deal with several creditors who have erroniously posted late payments.

They have eventually acted in good faith to remove the incorrect information, yet it has taken years to do so, even after the initial problem supposedly had been corrected, in one case showing up again a year later, and requiring another round of correction. The initial assumption of customer service reps that they were right, or there was nothing wrong, or nothing they could do, had to be overcome by discussions or letters with supervisors, or branch managers. A knowledge of the specific FCBA or FCRA section being violated has helped get past the routine "that's just our policy" they have used to dismiss most complaints.

In the mean time, the real costs are apparent in both wasted time, and increased rates from other creditors, yet recovery of damages is impractical or improbable. I think many consumers give up and just pay in terms of higher rates, or don't even know what it is costing them.

 

Re: Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

Regarding ethics, although there are certainly many cases of consumers abusing credit and skipping out on paying bills, not all negative TLs are that cut and dry.

Frequent problems arise with 3 way transactions, such as involving a consumer, an insurer, and a medical provider. Each may have duties and responsibilities, called out by various contracts. If the provider does not get what they believe the correct co-pay is, or the insurer does not handle the claim right, or the provider does not submit it correctly, or the statement is sent to the wrong address, is it always the consumer who has acted irresponsibly? Is it ethically wrong that a consumer paying the amount finally determined to be correct demand removal of a negative tradeline?

 

Re: Re: Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

I suppose it depends on what exactly you think legitimate bad credit is. I think paying the debt and the removal of them if you do pay them goes hand in hand. I gather by what you say that you are strictly talking about the people who knowingly go nuts knowing they do not have the means to pay and the people who commit fraud; which results in both groups spurning responsiblity for paying the debt back. Of course you need a system in place for weeding out the credit risks, but the system needs to reward efforts towards recovery as well.

In my case, I paid instead of hiding and not paying. Some I settled for less because at the time I was a strapped college kid. I dug my hole and then proceeded to bury myself then I dug my way back out. However, instead of a "well, good job in owning up to your responsibilities", I got a big fat kick in the teeth that thankfully will be gone by the end of next year.

"You did pay those bills, but....well ya paid 'em late. And settlements, bah! We lost our portion of the over the limit fees, late fees and ungodly interest rate that you took on the minute you were late since you took a settlement offer. Soooo what we are gonna do instead is mark your effort as some sort of "settlement" which means jack since you are going to be penalized for 7 years as though you did skip out on us. "

Removing this "legitimate bad credit" a couple of months or years before it is due to fall off MOST CERTAINLY IS ethical seeing how I have busted my rear for the last 4 years in re-building my credit, yet I have a credit score that is considered marginal. I have been able to get credit cards, car loans and a home, but I am not all warm and fuzzy when I see the rates for my years of good behavior.

Plus, legitimate bad credit caused by health or economic issues out of your control has nothing to do with "behaving properly". If these people can get rid of it right after being put through a crisis like that, I say more power to them ESPECIALLY of they had good credit prior.

 

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People make deals all the time to get legit things resolved. Look at how much goes on in the courts with plea bargains.

What's funny is on the CRA literature it states that legit bad credit can't be deleted. So if we're getting deletions then the bad credit must not be legit.

 

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I find this thread quite interested, and it is refreshing to see that no one has flamed another, yet listened to their opinions. For that I applaud this board - although I applaud this board every day for the life it has given me.

I was an Ethics major in college, so this thread, in particular interests me. I am a fleet manager at a car dealership, and a lawyer in training, so you may think my ethics are not quite what they should be

However, the original topic was the ethics of having bad debt removed. I see debt reporting as fruit from the poisoned tree. I never agreed to having my social security number attached to my credit history, nor never agreed to having my credit history accessible to a third party company.

I have said it before, but I will continue to assert that I do not like the CRA's because they act like jail house snitches. Their sole existence is to keep tabs on every credit related move that a person makes, and I hate that idea. They are not federal agencies, yet act like them. They are equivalent to Walmart - just another private entity, and I do not believe that Walmart need delve into my credit past, nor my past employer, my ssn, nor my previous addresses.

I see no ethical wrong in removing ANY tradeline from a CRA, as I do not think their existence is a legitimate one in the first place.

I do however, see an ethical fallacy in using a legal loophole to circumvent a debt which one truly owes. I, myself have used legal methods to demolish debts owed to CA's, but I will assert that just because I used a legal route, does not mean that I took the ethical path to ridding myself of such debt.

 

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If party A injures party B by not fully paying a debt, and party B injures party A by failing to follow the law, potentially subjecting themselves to statutory damages should party A sue, should not the two reach an agreement that settles their differences? People and companies make rational business decisions every day, to minimize their risk and resolve their disputes.

 

Re: Re: Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

It depends.

I have always felt that saying 'not mine' on a valid reporting debt is wrong. I can honestly say I never did that.

However, I have- and I do not have a problem with- pointing out a flaw in the way a debt is reported. If that resulted in a negative being erased, so be it. Sometimes it just meant that the error I pointed out was corrected- sometimes hurting me more than helping me.

That being said- I would not judge someone else for doing it. As long as that person did it with the right intentions.

There are many people who have come here with bad credit, learned, and 'fixed' their reports. Most of them went on to become very responsible with their finances and more cautious about spending. That is a good thing.

However, there have been a few who came here with bad credit, learned, got it fixed, got new cards and high limits, and got themselves right back in a jam. I have always thought that was a bad thing.

I don't want to sound 'preachy', but I think we should all learn from our mistakes. We should come hear and learn not only about improving our scores, but learn how our mistakes have hurt us (and others) and how not to make them again.

 

Re: Is removing legit bad credit ethical ?

Let take this from other than an absolutist position. Their "wrong" costs me hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. My "wrong" costs them (the CRAs) an amount that can be expressed in a tiny fraction of a penny, say one one-thousanth of a cent. I would say that it is 1.0001 wrongs rather than two.

Further, my ethical barometer cannot measure a transgression anywhere near that small.


A second, complementary view of the issue:

If credit reports have an error rate of 40% plus, and, are heavily biased toward negative errors, who is legitimately harmed by removing a "legit bad tradeline" ??

Seems to me that this would simply reduce the unjust enrichment of creditors and others from the higher interest rates and insurance premiums imposed.

Of course this assumes that you are not removing a legit tradeline that is the last negative on your report.

 

Re: Is removing legit bad credit et

Is it ethical for banks to capitalize on an individual misfortunes ? When banks screw up, the government bails them out and they get off scot free. But we are left to fend for ourselves.

Hell yeah it's ethical.

 

Re: Is removing legit bad credit et

Is it ethical to have someone live with negative items on their report for 7 years?