If you demand that a CA return the account back to the OC and never contact you again, is that a cease and desist demand?
No, it isn't. Matter of fact that is just being foolish too. Here is why. Under FDCPA one has lots of rights and there are lots of things that a 3rd party collector cannot do to you legally while if it goes back to the OC he can get away with just about anything he wants. So why would you want to demand the priviledge of giving up your rights under the law?
Once you send the C & D, they have one more opportunity to notify you. They have three choices of what they can say (per FDCPA): (1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector's further efforts are being terminated; (2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or (3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy. They absolutely do not have to return the debt to the OC because you tell them to. If they did (#1), then you give up the protections of the FDCPA.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? But wouldnt they give up their rights to act as a CA on this account if they return it to the OC?
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Yes, it would. But my point is to ask why you are so strong on wanting to get it out of the hands of the collector and back into the hands of the OC? What do you hope to gain by doing that if you are successful? That is what I fail to understand.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? I understand that one Bill. Sometimes, if the OC is reporting and not the CA, and you want to take care of it, then you want it back with the OC so you can negotiate for deletion or a positive tradeline. I just wanted to clarify that they do not have to send it back to the OC because of a C & D. That would be between the CA and OC, some are authorized to sue, others aren't.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Well, assuming that you are correct then what chance would you estimate that one might have in actually reaching the desired goal through such negotiations. Although I've never tried it myself I would tend to think that one's chances would be slim to none. After all, the OC isn't very heppy with the debtor at that pont and it would seem to me that they would just brush you off and refuse to do anything at all even if you paid cash in full. The original creditor can be forced to accept your payments and forced to remove all negative notations from one's credit reports when it has not yet gone to a 3rd party collector without a lot of problems but it just seems to me that once it goes to a 3rd party collector one is going to need a lot more powerful "weaponry" to get the same thing done than he would before it had been sent to a collection agency. While I can and do win the situation in either case I much prefer to see it happen before it goes to collections than after for the simple reason that if it can be forced upon the creditor pre-collection then one walks out with a spotless credit report and an open credit card account that is still open and useable. That is, of course, a great advantage. What amazes me is when a creditor would rather send it to a collector than to accept payment in full without having to fight for it.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Well, I used my perverted version of C&D to my advantage at least on one occasion. It allowed me the opportunity to dispute some charges and fees with the OC, in which they complied with my request and credited them. While I was getting my way, I was too dumb to ask for deletion of the lates. (((thumping myself of the forehead))) Nevertheless, I guess I lucked up.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? also, by kicking it back to the OC, you can use the Fair Billing Act to your favor. FCRA also helps a bit. They also have more power and will frequently negotiate more easily than a CA.
What rights would I be giving up if they do as I requested? What rights would I need at that point? QUEEN_BEE =================== You'd be trading a cannon for a water pistol. The right to be fully armed to fight the debt. B 59
Re: Re: Is this C&D? I fail to see how she would be giving up any rights at all. have you read the Fair Billing Act?
Re: Re: Is this C&D? I agree with Grendel...the FBA is the FBA. She wouldnt be giving up any rights at all.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Well, I sure do thank you for your comments and I do hope that others will also have some other thoughts on the matter. My way of working with the problems uses FDCPA as well as the Law of Agency, and several other laws from time to time and sometimes it forces the collector to either throw up his hands and return it to the OC but most of the time it forces the collector to take it off, pay the debt to the OC and forces the OC to remove his listings too. In some rare cases it ends up that the collector has to pay the debtor several times more money than the debt ever amounted in the first place. In some instances it can force the OC to reopen the credit card account and make the credit reports all say that it is a current account in good standing and was never late. If it goes to a judgment or has already done so my methods can void the judgment and make that go away too. Doing what I teach almost always gets a totally clean credit report because it forces those who put the derogatory remarks off the credit reports and also teaches how to build new credit also. And guess what. Most of what I teach had it's beginnings right here on Creditnet as well as a large number of other message boards including my own, usenet news groups and Yahoo and Msn groups, any place I happened to stumble into the pieces. All I had to do was the basic research to prove that what was being said was true and had a solid basis in the law and in court rulings. So then once I found a "new" idea or legal principle I had to figure out how to word the letters to make them work effectively and I had to learn how to do legal research and prepare motions and briefs and court case filings so I could get the job done and be right most of the time. In the process I made a lot of mistakes but I always managed to catch them before they did any harm because I have some good friends who are attorneys and legal experts whom I could bounce my ideas and work off of before I actually put them into practice. During the last 3 years I've put in far more 18 to 24 hour days than I even care to think about. And I've greatly enjoyed every minute of it. I like to study a lot. I always have been a book worm. It's a lot of fun and the benefits have been enormous.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Agreed. Guess what? I am trying to show you another tool, in the rare case that it can't be done at the CA level. Ever run into an obstinate CA that does things by the book? I have. C+D the CA; booting it back to the OC. Often the OC won't even pick it back up! Use the Fair Bill Act as a different methodology. BTW, I do plenty of research: http://creditreportrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=784 More than anything, I know you don't know me from a hole in the wall, but the way you write things sets my teeth on edge. I have been VERY sucessful in negotiating with OC's, using the FBA and FCRA as tools to force deletion. I do this on a weekly basis with my clients. It's actually quite fun to watch them back peddle as I remove every toehold they had on the law. It's often easier with the OC. that's why most will do it.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Let me help you out just a bit. 1. The right to put an end to all harrassing phone calls once and for all. Original creditors can call you at any time of the day or night as often as they want altough they seldom if ever actually do that because they can be held liable if they are taken to court on the matter in some states. 2. The right to dispute the bill or any portion thereof and have it done in a reasonable time. 3. The right to stop harrassing phone calls and the giving out of personal information to friends, neighbors and relatives. 3. The right not to be charged extra to make payments. In otherwords original creditors can force you to make your payments by Western Union or other costly means but 3rd party collectors cannot do that. 4. 3rd party collectors can force or cause you to pay to call them while 3rd party collectors must provide a toll free number to use to call them. There are a whole spate of protections granted under FDCPA that are not granted under any other law such as FBA or FCRA, most of which the creditors obey without being forced to under the law for the simple reason that if they were called on the carpet over them they would be seen as pretty attrocious by today's standards so they would be likely to lose the case against them even though they are not bound by FDCPA. And then quite a few states now have laws which make no distinction between original creditors and 3rd party collectors. Almost all of them now obey most of FDCPA of their own free will but if they don't they cannot be sued for their failure to do so. Yes, you bet I have. FBA and a whole lot more. Add in TILA, (Truth in Lending Act), Miranda, all of the Constitution, Rules of Civil Proceedure, Rules of Evidence, tax law, both the civil and criminal sides of the Rico Act, Federal and state telecommunications acts, copyright law, Securities & Exchange (SEC) law and much, much more. Then just for good measure throw in learning how to do HTML, VB, CGI, PERL, MySQL2, PHP, Linux, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, and a whole host of other programs. Of course, I don't claim to be expert in them but at least I know my way around well enough to do most of what I want to do with no problem. As I said before, I just love to learn how to do things and once I start I never give up until I have it down pat. One thing that sure helps a lot is that I don't need much sleep. For instance, last night I went to bed at 2 A.M. and was back up at 4 A.M. cat napped for maybe an hour this afternoon and I'll probably be up till around midnite or later tonite. If I've got something really interesting going on I just don't get sleepy at all. I guess I probably be pretty lucky to get about 20 hours sleep in a 7 day week whereas most people would get about 50 or more hours sleep in that same amount of time. And maybe I'm sleep deprived or something but I simply fail to see where FBA gives one even 1/100th of the benefits and protections that other laws, rule and regulations give. Maybe someone will wake me up and show me where I am wrong.
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Nice load of Buzzwords there. I have a few of my own. MBA, Paralegal, CCIE. Add them all together... By the way, if you add the Privacy Act in there as well, it helps tremendously. No more phone calls on something that you pay for. You can also cease and desist an OC. Did you read the link I provided? Here's another one: http://creditreportrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=784 here's an excerpt from the FTC non-legalese site on FBA: Will my credit rating be affected? The creditor may not threaten your credit rating or report you as delinquent while your bill is in dispute. However, the creditor may report that you are challenging your bill. In addition, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits creditors from discriminating against credit applicants who exercise their rights, in good faith, under the FCBA. Simply put, you cannot be denied credit simply because you've disputed a bill. What if... ...the bill is incorrect? If your bill contains an error, the creditor must explain to you - in writing - the corrections that will be made to your account. In addition to crediting your account, the creditor must remove all finance charges, late fees or other charges related to the error. If the creditor determines that you owe a portion of the disputed amount, you must get a written explanation. You may request copies of documents proving you owe the money. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm I guess I don't sleep much either. Gulf War Sleeping Syndrome and all that. There are always different angles. They are all applicable in different situations. Why limit yourself?
Re: Re: Is this C&D? Sorry about that. Hope that I can improve. I am most assuredly a willing student even though I may not seem that way at times. Glad you are having success. No matter how much I learn I always realize that I have got a lot more to do yet. That's fine. I'd a whole lot rather spend my time learning than I had to sit and watch a boob tube from morning to night. Yes, I do the same, both off and on the internet. Yes, it's quite a pleasure indeed. Well, like I said, I've still got a lot of learning to do.
