I sent a validation request to a CA and all they sent back was a copy of a statement from the original creditor. Is this proper validation? If not what letter to send next? Any suggestions?
Spears v. Brennan court case clearly establishes that this is NOT proper validation. Although it's a decision by Indiana Supreme Court and as such applicable only for IN residents, it serves as a legal precedent for other states. Full and proper validation include a signed contract that establishes your obligation to pay the original creditor, plus a full accounting of all debits and credits from the day of opening the account till the day of the alleged delinquency. Mere print outs from the CA's computer, or a copy of ONE statement from the original creditor, is NOT proper validation. Ignore that letter from CA, wait till 30 days from your original letter are up, then send an estoppel letter outlining that you have not received proper validation yet, and hence you are concluding that in fact no such debt exists, and the CA must delete the entry from your reports.
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? See this thread for a copy of the estoppel letter: http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...read.php?s=&threadid=52419&highlight=estoppel However, before you send this out, please also read the thread titled "What is Estoppel" by Butch ... there is important information in that thread. http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...s=&threadid=51823&highlight=what+is+estoppel
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? Send this letter next if you don't get validation in 30 days. Estoppel Letter DON'T CHANGE Send CRRR Your Name Address «City», «State» «Zip» Company» Address «City», «State» «Zip» «Date» RE: Dispute Letter of <insert date> Dear Sir/Madame: As I have not heard back from you in over 30 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists. In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine. For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information: Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter. What is your authorization of law for your collection of information? What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt? Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of ____________________ . Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature. You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed. Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act. Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $_____________________ in damages for the following: Defamation Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriffâ??s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment. For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status. I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief. Sincerely, Your Name DON'T SIGN """""""""```~~~```'"""""""""
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? Do I just change it to say since you failed to provide proper validation instead of the part that talks about since you didn't respond? When I send this to the CA do I send anything to the CRA? Thanks.
I understand now that this isn't proper validation. Are there sample letters other than the estoppel letter to send to a CA telling them that a printout isn't proper debt validation? The above thread doesn't really have anything like that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? Do I wait another 30 days before sending anything to the CRA? Also, what do I send to the CRA? Thank you.
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? You're not required to educate them on the laws they must obey in their line of business. Could be because it's not your responsibility to provide them with that.
Re: Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? So if I don't tell them they didn't provide me with the correct info do I just use the estoppel letter?
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? Im just wondering if there is any other sources out there that maintain that just a printout does not validate a debt I hear this same case referred to around here often and Im just looking for some more back-up it would be great if there was something formal out there that detailed exactly what was necessary to validate a debt
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? I agree. You don't have to tell them why you win if they lose. More law exists on what NOT to do rather than what specificially to do. That means the burden is on them to validate, not on you. Consider it a problem solving technique and try to relax a bit if you don't fully understand the whys and wherefores because it really comes over time.
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? I get that part, but what do I send to the CRA? I know now to send the estoppel letter the CA after the 30 days but is that it? They will just automatically remove it or do I need to send something to the CRA to tell them that the CA never validated and it needs to be removed from my CR? Thanks.
Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? Estoppel goes out as soon as you get a response from your original Request for Validation letter. Worry about the letter to the CRA at the appropriate time. Follow lbrown 59's advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? 1*This isn't exactly on the money. Actually it goes like so. Send the CA estoppel 30 days after they signed the green card if they haven't validated. The problem with waiting till the CA responds to validation is when do you send the estoppel if the CA don't respond.?
Re: Re: Re: Is This Debt Validation?? lbrown: i think they were specifically referring to the situation where the ca did respond, with incomplete or inaccurate validation. i see the logic of sending either a second validation, or estepel immediately upon the receipt of the incomplete, or inaccurate validation -- if for no other reason, it prevents the ca from trying to quick file a suit during the time between their 'mailing of the 'validation'', and the end of the 30 days from the date that they signed for the first validation letter.
