Is this letter still accurate?

Unless you know what every sentence of a form letter means, you don't want to use a form letter.

The best letter is short and sweet.

I have no idea what the **** you are talking about. (ok, maybe that's too short and sweet; and the "the ***" is optional )

I have my own 'form letter' but it has evolved continually.

But if you are getting started, you want to start SMALL.

Secondly, any form letter which includes a 'validation form' is mute. This is about the only truth in ACA's rebuttle on the form letters which most consumers send is that consumers include those frivelous 'verification forms' which only show that the consumer knows how to cut and paste from an online form letter which they can show as being frivelous.

Per the FTC; validation is for three things.

(a) to verify that the alleged creditor is correct.
(b) to verify that the amount of the alleged account is correct; (including whether there are any illegal charges being applied to the alleged account.)
(c) to verify the name and address of the alleged original creditor.

As long as you can defend your requests as being of to verify one of those things, then you are safe.

I typically request the following. (after which will be the question which they are designed to answer.)

• A signed application, and contract for the alleged account(s) in question. (a+b)
• All statements for the alleged account(s) in question. (b)
• All receipts for the alleged account(s) in question. (b)
• A complete accounting of any and all fees accessed to the alleged account(s) in question, including the methods of computing all said fees, and their legality under federal law. (b: a longer list can be taken from the FTC commentary on 808(1))

Along with a request for the name & address of the alleged original creditor within the letter body.

You always want to re-phrase things in your own way!!!

 

I hear opinions here and other places say the short and sweet method is best, and I would agree with that, but the sample letters here are all quite lengthy. I do know they are to be used as guidlines, and not used exactly as they are, and that I should personilze mine for my purposes. But i also know we have to be careful about the words we choose. For example, one C&D letter I found elsewhere says:

"I have been contacted by your company about a debt you allege I owe. I am instructing you not to contact me further in connection with this debt."

There are 2 key wordings here that I think make this good. The first is saying contacted by "your company" and not saying contacted by "you", which says that no one in your company may contact me now, instead of you're the only one in the company that can't contact me, but your co-worker can. The 2nd thing is the word "allege" - without that important word, the sentence could sound like you are admitting to oweing it.

This is why the wording is so important, and why we look for for good examples, especially us that are newer, so we can take the steps we need to take without causing further damage by doing it wrong. That is also why the short and sweet method is good - the less said, the better. And though we should take the sample letters as a guide only, and that we should make them our own and we can shorten them, we also don't want to take out important words, and we may not always know what that is.

I do not want to sound critical of the help that people give when I question lengthy sample letters or any other forms of help; quite the contrary. I appreciate all the advise more than mere words can express. But I get confused because I will read one thing, then read something that is completely different or opposite, and I don't know what the bottom line answer is. For example, keep letters short, but sample letters are long.

(the letter I used here, 2 sentences, has one more part, but it refers to FDCPA and saying how because of that law, you may not contact me further once I have notified you not to do so. I don't feel comfortable citing laws I am not well versed on, so I will leave that part out. But the whole letter is 3 sentences long. That is short and sweet, and I think that is all that is need for a C&D letter. I'll take advise and corrections on this, and I appreciate it all. I hope I did not offend anyone; please forgive if I did.

I also realize the original poster was asking about a validation letter and not a C&D letter, but the idea that (s)he was seeking answers, had found a letter here, but then discovered that it should be shorter (which I agree with), can leave us confused. Or is it just me, who can admittedly be easily confused in this area? Please don't be too hard on me if I offended anyone - I just see conflicting thoughts quite often, and it does confuse me, maybe others too. I have also gotten great advise and a great education so far, so that extent, and much more, I very much appreciate this forum. And sometimes even through the conflicting information, I know it's often just ideas going through all angles to help come up with answers, but it leaves not knowing the final answer sometimes.

 

#1) Capital One is not a collection agency, so validation under the FDCPA does not apply.
#2) If they've previously contacted you, and have records showing that they've contacted you previously, they can argue that the validation request is not timely, they would have to place the account in dispute the next time that they report it, but they wouldn't have to provide any validation to you.
#3) The OC doesn't apply (see #1), the OC validation would apply; however if they've contacted you previously, as in #2, they could argue that the validation request wasn't timely.

Validation is not a miracle pill.

There are equally good methods which you can use; and which you may be able to apply to OCs as well.

You need to read everything that you can before you think about getting started, that is the best advice, some pros went six months or longer before doing ANYTHING.

You need to have the basics under your belt.

One of the tools that you can use to handle both CAs and OCs is Johnson v. MBNA which requires that the data furnisher conclusively verify the disputed information; and not to just to quickly glance over the computer screen and say that it was verified. But, with this tool, you need to make a specific dispute, not just a standard NOT MINE.

That's another thing, when you dispute, how you dispute is important too.

 

Suzi:

You do not want to tell them to cease any and all contact, because that could leave them with no other way to contact you but to sue you. You need to read the three permissible contact forms in the FDCPA; if the account is not time-barred, suit is one of the remedies allowed by law.

Saying that you find it inconvenient for them to contact you via any method other than postal mail is safer.

The collection agency won't be able to make the nuance that you are trying to make between your company and you.

Only cut-off communication completely if you are 1000% (not a typo i.e. 10x) sure that the account is past the statutes of limitations in your jurisdiction.

 

jam237,
Thanks for the response, and I'd like to ask you to clarify something, please (I'm still learning!) Isn't the idea behind a C&D letter that you want to get rid of that particular CA, and when you put it in writing, isn't that your right to ask them to leave you alone, not with the purpose of hoping the CL or item goes away, but that it goes to another CA and you kinda roll the dice and hope you get a CA you may be able to handle easier? I thought that's when you were supposed to use a C&D. If I understand right from you said above, it sounds like yes, that's what will happen but you don't want to do that because it could have them sue you, but can they do that after they receive your C&D letter, or do they have to go away (so they can't sue you or do anything else?)

Oh now I don't feel so bad for waiting as long as I did to take a step. I waitied a long time, trying to besure of my steps, but then felt maybe I was overthinking it (I tend to do that!) and thought thinking time is over, I gotta do SOMETHING. But now, because of this quote, I feel like I am doing what the pros do, and that makes me feel like I'm on the right track!

I do appreciate the clarification. And let me apologize to everyone now for asking as much as I do. I truley spend a lot of time reading the stickies over and over, trying to understand it, coming back to it another day with fresh eyes and re-reading. And I think I've learned a lot, but I know I can frustrate people with my not understanding things like this like many people can do a bit more easily. As much as I have asked questions here, you can't imagine how many questions I DIDN'T ask! Please be patient with me, I apologize if I am a bother, and I sincerely thank you for all the help.

By the way, I have some good news I will be posting in one of my old threads that will get bumped up after I update. I hope any of my experiences can help someone as many have helped me.

 

A total C&D leaves them with a few options; cease collections (they can send a letter telling you that they are ceasing collections), notify you that they intend to seek a specific remedy (lawsuit), proceed with the specific remedy (lawsuit).

You don't want to send a C&D while you could be sued.

How can you decide whether there is a chance of being sued?

You can figure it out the way that the CA would.

How old is the alleged debt? (Newer, higher risk)
How much is the alleged debt? (Higher, higher risk)
How far from you is the CA? (Closer, higher risk; although they can hire local council)

 

jam237, I think you have answered this question, but I need to have this clarified: (I posted this question in another thread about claification of a "sticky", but no one replied) (BTW, at this time, this doesn't pertain to me, but a friend, but it may be something I need to know later or that someone here needs to know now)

Can a CA sue? This comes from the theory (not mentioned in forum, just a theory I've heard elswhere) that I did not sign a contract or make any agreements with the CA - I did with the OC, but not the CA, so can the CA sue? Or can only the OC sue? Or, once the CA bought or was assigned the debt, did they also buy the signed contract or agreement which now gives them the right to sue?

In reading the stickies, I read something about a one party and 2 party agreement, which says (if I'm correct) that in some states both parties have to enter into the agreement and in some states only 1 party can participate and it's still a legal agreement. This would mean that if a CA now has the debt and the rights to that debt in a 1 party state, the agreement is legal and the CA has power to sue. If CA has the debt in a 2 party state, then both parties - the CA and ther consumer - have to enter into agreement or the CA has no power. The consumer enters into agreement in a few ways: (s)he agrees to payment arrangements, or, if the account was a cc, the consumer uses the cc and by doing so agrees to be a customer and agrees to the terms, and this now means that the CA has power, if needed, to sue. (from the sticky "Never talk to a CA")

So, if a consumer is not in an agreement (contract, etc) with the CA for whatever reason, then the CA does not have the right to sue, but if the consumer has entered into an agreement or contract in any way, now the CA does have the power to sue. Otherwise, only the OC can sue - is this correct understanding?

As I said, I think you answered this by saying yes, the CA can sue, when your previous response gave all of those options the CA has, but with the info in the sticky possibly saying something different, I'm looking for clarification.

 

Whether a CA can sue depends on a number of things.

First, whether they are acting as a CA or JDB (Junk Debt Buyer); if they bought the 'debt' then they have ownership of the account and could do anything that the previous owner could have done.

Secondly, whether or not the contract with the CA provides them with the ability to sue for collection; this is not the norm, but can happen.

With debts which are more than a few years old, the chances are that the CA is a JDB.

 

Thank you, I am understanding much better now. It's all starting to making more and more sense to me. I think In this area I need to read things 1000 times for absorption and get clarifications through here, but once it starts to click, and for me in this area that takes a lot, then it starts to get better.

And Barnfire, I apologize if I highjacked this thread. I hope you (and others) also found the info useful, and I hope you got your original question answered. May I suggest going to the forum's main start page where you choose a "room" to go to, and you'll see "Sample Letters" for many types of letters to use at different times. Also in the stickies, look at PsychDoc's Primer for credit repair, I think in the "Hall of Fame" sticky. There are other letters there (I think) as well as other starter things to know. Also look at FAQ's sticky. It wouldn't hurt to read all of those stickies and I know that takes a lot of time (boy do I know!) but it is the best place to start, IMHO.

Suzanne

 

When I was getting started, I spent months reading and reading; then a three week crash course of 18 hour days eatting, drinking, and sleeping the FDCPA & FCRA. ;-)

So, it can take plenty of time to get things implanted...