Judgment from car accident thought

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Becky, May 5, 2001.

  1. Becky

    Becky Well-Known Member

    My husband was in a car accident in 4/99. Our insurance found him to not be at fault so they refused to pay the other driver, who had no insurance. They took it to arbitration. Where the attorney deemed my husband to pay $2000. We had just filed a Ch 13, he made a couple of payments & then we just couldn't anymore.

    A lien judgment was filed in 10/99 which we did not know until we went to sell our house. Before it was foreclosed on. Anyway the buyer was to pay off any liens. I just found out that the buyers attorney went around the lien & got them a clear title without paying this.

    Is there any way we can get this cleared up? The court house shows it as an unsatisfied lien judgment on the property we no longer own. We still do not have the money & this is the only thing holding us back from being approved for a FHA loan.
    Thanks Becky
  2. Erica

    Erica Well-Known Member


    I'm not an expert by any means, but isn't it illegal to dart around a tax lein against real property?

    I'll do some investigative work on this and reply back.

    If anyone else can help Becky out, please do.
  3. Erica

    Erica Well-Known Member

    I can't find anything on this topic at any of the legal websites I know of. Maybe Anthony of Credit Defenses can help you out.
  4. dave

    dave Well-Known Member

    Why didn't your husband's insurance company pay the judgment? Or is this $2000 a deductible? I've never heard of deductibles in auto liability policies before but maybe it's different where you live. Get some answers about this first. If the company should have paid, then you need to make that happen and make them pay a premium on top of that to you for the hassle they have caused..

    The issue of the lien is hard to answer without a time line of the sale, the bankruptcy filing and the date the judgment was recorded.

    It could be that the lien was recorded after the sale. If this happened, the lien never attached to the property and the buyer could ignore it.

    If the lien was recorded while your husband owned the property but after the Chapter 13 was filed, the lien is void unless court permission was obtained to record it. No court would make such an order in a case like this because all creditors of the same class--in this case the class of unsecured creditors--have to be treated equally. Gifting a security interest to one of many unsecured creditors would be at odds with bankruptcy laws that prohibit such discrimination.

    The lien should cause your husband concern, however. He should talk to his lawyer about taking steps to avoid it so that when he emerges from bankruptcy, the lien isn't still there when he wants to buy another property. The rules about avoiding liens in bankruptcy are complicated. Your husband needs to talk to a bankruptcy lawyer about how to proceed. Just don't ignore it.
  5. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

  6. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member


  7. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

  8. LKH

    LKH Well-Known Member

    Unless I am incorrect, if a person is sued in regards to a car accident, it is the insurance co.'s responsibility to fight this for their insured. Were you ever served papers? If so, did you contact your insurance co. to let them know. You had insurance at the time of the accident and as such was protected. Your insurance co. has a legal obligation to represent you in this case and if it went to arbitration, being you were insured at the time, they must pay the judgment - not you- that is why we have insurance.
  9. Crdt Dfnse

    Crdt Dfnse Well-Known Member

    Dave suggested some make-sense options (as have others, generally), in context to the possibility that your BK petition was still pending at the time of judgment acquisition. This is certainly one avenue to explore, and I also suggest you do so. (Good thinking, Dave!)

    Another aspect to consider is the purchase offer, if one was signed by both parties? Although I donâ??t know in what state you sold the property, presumably a written purchase offer (for the sale of your home) would be applicable. If this is the case in your situation, hereâ??s another possible optionâ?¦

    If the purchase offer stipulated that the taxes were to be â??paidâ? by the buyer, and were not? You may have grounds to seek a redress against the title insurance company that issued policy to benefit the buyer(s). Be forewarned, however, title companies can be very slick when it comes to avoiding claims. So donâ??t expect a quick resolution or one without some degree of effort.
  10. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member


    What state? What insurance company? Are you still insured with that company?

    Perhaps I can help.

  11. Becky

    Becky Well-Known Member

    Re: Becky

    State is Florida,

    the insurance was Progressive. We went around & around with them & switched companies.

    The Ch 13 was filed 3/99 two weeks prior to the accident so it could not be included in the BK.

    Arbritration was brought by the couple who's car was hit.

    The Mediater was the only Attorney present.

    Judgement was placed in 10/99

    BK discharged 12/99

    House started in foreclouser 4/00. The couple filed with the court & the mortgage companies as to their lien on the house.

    11/00 we sold the house with a contract that all closing costs & outstanding taxes would be paid. The problem we're running in to is that we did not specify the liens. There were two liens on the property the closing company paid one, but , not the other. Both the buyer & the closing Attorney were well aware of these liens.

  12. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Re: Becky


    Unless there is something you haven't told, you have a legitimate complaint for the FL Dept of Insurance.
    They will make Progressive pay this. Go to this URL


    call their consumer helpline, and tell them an agent said you have a legitimate complaint regarding timely payment of claims (I have FL P&C license). They can tell you how to proceed. Once the complaint is filed, the Dept of Insurance will have an investigator contact you to get your side of the story. Have as much documentation available as you can, and they will make Progressive pay.

    I'm sorry this happened to you.

  13. Crdt Dfnse

    Crdt Dfnse Well-Known Member


    Frankly, I completely agree with Breeze, Progressive is only that for itâ??s own self-interests! It may help youâ??re awareness to know that most recently, Progressive took one of my insurance payments and applied it to a balance they allege I owe. Funny thing is, I donâ??t owe them a thing (and have receipts to prove it). Too boot, theyâ??ve referred the matter over to a collections agent (imagine me in collections?) in violation of several California statutes.

    Well, guess what, Iâ??ve contacted a few friends at the AGâ??s office and may file suit against them on behalf of myself and California consumersâ?¦ Thatâ??s a good thing.

    In any case, yes follow Beezeâ??s suggestion and make them pay! Hire counsel if necessary but donâ??t think because Progressive is big, itâ??s not vulnerableâ?¦ Remember, Goliath thought he was slick too!
  14. cable666

    cable666 Well-Known Member

    Arbritration was brought

    <I>Arbritration was brought by the couple who's car was hit.

    The Mediater was the only Attorney present.

    How on earth does one "Bring on arbitration" with a stranger? There is something missing here.

    No one can bring you to arbitration unless you have agreeded to do so. How did the couple manage to get you to sigh an arbitration agreement with them?

    Now, they could have sued you, and you did not respond and they won a default judgement. That sounds like actions that would match the senario you described.

    Were you served? If not, then I would petition the court to vacate the judgement.
  15. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: Arbritration was brought

    These questions need answers to help sort this out.
  16. Becky

    Becky Well-Known Member

    Re: Arbritration was brought

    Thanks everyone. We do have an attorney reviewing the documents now. I will contact the Fl Insurance commissioners also.

    The Arbritation: We recieved a letter in the mail (not even certified) With the couple's name, my husbands name, date & time. It takes place at the court house. The couple wished to bring the matter to Arbritraion instead of small claims.

    An Attorney sits in to over see the Arbritraion. Neither parties were represented by counsel. Since the insurance all ready refused to pay. The Attorney felt that since Mike hit them. Not taking in to consideration that they had started through the intersection and for some unknown reason they had stopped dead in the middle of an intersection on a 60 mph hwy. At night in pouring rain. Even slamming the brakes on 1/4 mile away my husband still slid in to them.

    No damage to our car & they had a dent in their bumper. No insurance on their part, but they came with one estimate of $1900 to fix it. Maybe their elderly age had influenced the Attorney. I don't know.

    They offered for him to make payments & he agreed. We recieved a piece of paper with their name & address on it to send payments & that was it. We went back to the insurance with this they still claimed no fault.

    Never recieved any other paper work. Didn't find out about the judgment until 7 months later.

    My husband should have never agreed to make payments, but the pressure of the BK & everything else. He folded? Lesson to everyone out there. Never give in with out a fight:)
  17. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Re: Arbritration was brought

    The FL DOI is exptremely consumer oriented, I think they are your best bet. Make that call!

  18. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member


    Actually Anthony, Progressive is a good company. But they are not going out of their way to help someone out of the goodness of their corporate heart.

    Do you pay your premiums directly to Progressive, or did you pay them to an agency? It sounds like something is really screwed up with your account. Agencies make those kinds of mistakes a lot more often than companies do. Sometimes agencies take your premium and don't sent it to the company. Then you have a balance when you have already paid. Just a thought.

    breeze, who's seen a lot ;)
  19. Becky

    Becky Well-Known Member

    Re:found this out!

    I found this bit of info out today. When we switched to progressive my husband filled out the paper work on fri 4/16 late afternoon with the deposit check. We had cancelled our other insurance.

    This is what they said: the policy did not become effective until the following Tuesday 4/20. Until the check cleared. Of course the accident was on Sat 4/17 of that weekend.

    So now according to Progressive we really weren't covered. Even though the policy read accident not at fault 4/17.

    Insurance won't cover it & the attorney that went around the lien on our house say's not his problem either.

    I swear I can't win. Haven't heard back from the attorney yet.
  20. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Re: Re:found this out!

    No way!

    Agents have binding authority. That means you are covered when you hand them the check and sign the application. If the check had not cleared, you would not have been covered. I am assuming it cleared. You were covered. Call the FL DOI!!!


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