Just received summons..HELP!! (long

Ok. Not fun at all. Sounds like the one I am dealing with but in another state. The affadavit sounds identical. I am not sure what is required as far as legal proof. To me the affadavit doesn't do it. In my response I pointed out they did not provide a signed agreement nor an accounting of payments and charges. In my case it is older and I believe it is actually an exwife's account. I also counterclaimed for violations.

One, if it were me I definately would not bother with that ageement they attached. Two, you must file an answer with the Court before the deadline. Three, I would require reasonable validation of a signed agreement and accounting of all charges and payments before I would settle. I don't know how this position will stand up in Court but it is where I am working from.

Hopefully others can provide some ideas also. Good luck.

 

The thing that really sticks out is why are they offering settlment along with the summons instead of just raping you in court? Could it be they can't come up with the docs to prove the account belongs to you or when the account was charged off? You may have a shot at fighting this one.

 

File an answer even with counterclaim for violations and just sit back and watch yourself get bulldozed clear out of the courtroom with that judgment hung around your neck. Dead meat.
Happens just about every time.

First of all, if that is the first thing you ever heard from that attorney you need to immediately send demand for validation CMRRR. He will probably just ignore you and proceed right on to court. Let him do it and don't even wince. Thats what attorney Cliff Shepard did in the Spears case. He even encouraged Brennan to go ahead and sue and promised he would not show up to defend and he didn't. Then he filed the Spears v Brennan case and the rest is history.

So I would tend to follow the exammple of a successful attorney if possible. But you would have the additional advantage of having provably sent demand for validation which Shepard did not have.

After the case is adjucated and the judgment is yours I'd be willing to bet you could just about copy the filing from Spears and go slap them upside the chops with it.

I'm no attorney so I can't give you any advice at all except why not do what the winners do?

That's the way I see it.

Do it like my 2nd wife did it. She would sit home and watch the soaps on TV and then take the story and somehow bend it so she could use it on me. That had me hopping for a while trying to figure out where in the world she came up with all these looney ideas, always a new problem every day.

Then one day I came home late for dinner and sat on the couch eating dinner and watching TV and the very next day, what do you know? Instant replay!

That's when it backfired on her. (LOL)

 

Hi Jas

If your question is about the blank date I am not sure if that is important or not. My first thought is no, but I could be completely wrong. Again, at this point you want to prepare an answer denying everything and presenting any defenses you have such as SOL. I would point out they have not provided any proof of the debt such as a signed agreement, date of last payment, or record of charges and payments. I would also start preparing discovery. Time to find out if they have any evidence. Hopefully others can chime in with more help. Good luck!

 

I say don't fight them at all. Lay behind the log and then when they think it's all done but the shouting crawl out from behind the log and whang them a good one.

Kinda like these two allligators were out walking along the beach. One was huge and the other a puny little runt.

The runt asks the big un how he got so big, knowing they both ate nothing but lawyers.

The big un says "How do you catch your lawyers?"

The runt replies "I hide out under their cars and when they come out of their office and unlock the door I grab them and shake the **** out of them."

"That's your problem" says the big un, "If you shake the **** out of a lawyer there ain't nuthin left but two lips and a briefcase."

 

Well Bill has a lot of experience so I would not discount what he writes. On the other hand, not answering the complaint will result in an automatic default judgement. That will be a tough one to deal with and is almost as bad as a BK. I have been told that once a lawsuit has started validation is of no impact. So I am less than thrilled about that idea.

Again I personally would answer the complaint, make any affirmative defenses I could, and then use discovery to see any documentation they might have. At that point if you really don't want to go to trial you could negotiate a settlement. I think it was either LKH or Lizzardking who hit the other side with discovery and then watched 'em fold.

Is this playing their game? Yep. Is there a better way? I don't think so unless you are willing to take mighty big risks.

 

I understand and I agree.

As for discovery it is a bit different in every state. I am right in the middle of it now. You need to find the civil court procedures for the state you are in and research discovery, requests for admissions, interrogatories and requests for production. This all comes after you file your answer to the complaint, but I would hit them as soon as possible afterwords. Check out

http://www.lawdog.com/
http://www.findlaw.com/

along with Whychat's site.

 

OK, all you naysayers. I can most certainly understand where you are coming from and I can understand why you feel that way and if I didn't think I know better I would have to agree with you. But I've finally looked at so many judgements that had been issued against people who did what you are advising to do and more and they still lost the case and in most cases now have to go sue the judge, file appeals and worse trying to beat the results of their efforts that I have come to the conclusion that it don't make any difference what you file or how good your courtroom footwork is you still stand almost a 100% chance of losing.

That sounds outrageous and illogical since we all want to believe that we have a judicial system that is fair and unbiased and will do the right thing according to what the law says.

I'm telling you it isn't so and you are looking at a system of justice that is stacked against you from the git-go. It is a monstrously evil regime that cares only for one thing and that is currying the favor of those who have the money and the power to oust them come next election if they don't do the bidding of the power structure that has the money and the wherewithall to take a judge out come next election if it wants to.

It also is a system where those who have the money and the power to buy the influence of the judges do so at every opportunity. They provide the judges with "seminars" packed with big name lawyers and higher court judges who lecture them on whatever point of law that turns their crank at the moment and they are wined and dined and put up for the night in fancy hotels and resort lodges and guess who pays the tab for all of it. Scumbag collection agency or his kissin cuzzin, that's who.

Now then, what did you ever do for the judge but give him a hard time if even that?

So who is he going to pass judgment in favor of? You? Forget it. He is going to rule against you every time and twice on Sunday if need be.

But wait a minute you say. Those are perks and the judge has to report them to the ethics commission. Maybe so, but a judge's training seminar isn't a perk. And anyway in most states judges don't have to report anything like that. Only federal judges have to report any perks they get. So if its federal judges all you have to do is go look up the records or demand them through FOIA. OK. I'll go for that. Just try it. Rotsa Ruck.

Oh, so now you want to file charges on a federal judge because he failed to report some perk you happen to have discovered? Rotsa Ruck.

So if thats the kind of treatment you are going to get the only way is to blindside them and catch them in errors which deprive them of their jurisdiction in your case. Then maybe, just maybe you might be able to win. But you better not wake them up too soon. If you do they can amend their motions and still beat you that way. Best wait at least 30 days before you try it or they can do just that.

If you think you are fighting a fight with people who are duty bound to give you a fair shake think again.

Go ahead and file all your interogatories and motions for discovery and see how far it gets you.

Have fun.

 

I say lay behind the log and do nothing with one exception.

Well, as you know I'm not an attorney so I can't give you legal advice but that is what I would do if I were in your shoes.

On the 17th or sooner if possible. (LOL) If not, at the earliest possible opportunity.

Each state has a "sol" which determines when the judgment becomes final and it is usually the date when the judge memorializes the judgment but some states decree that it shall become final so many days after memorialization of the judgment. That date can often be found in the RCP for that state. After the judgment is memorialized I tend to think that the next thing to do is to go to the courthouse and get court certified copies with court clerk stamps on every copy so it is set in stone for sure and you can be certain that you have all the paperwork and then study it to see whether or not there are errors which deprived the court of jurisdiction and then if there are any you then prepare a motion to vacate void judgment and go file it as plaintiff using the docket numbers from the old case to file on. Then go home and start preparing your appeal so when the judge denies your motion you are all ready to strike the next blow.

Wow! That's a lot of work you say! You bet it is. But its a whole lot easier than going up against seasoned attorneys in discovery. Discovery can get awfully nasty and those bozos know exactly how to brow beat you until you can't see straight. I'll guarantee you that one thing you sure don't want to do is to go into discovery without a good lawyer with you unless you have been there and done that at least a couple of times. Even then its a good idea to go buy a couple of good books on discovery that will prepare you for the worst. Barnes and Noble and several more of the better bookstores have them and the best cost about $100 a copy.

Each state is different on that. You have to study your RCP to get the answers to that. Another book you really need it the federal attorney's manual in the district you live in. That tells you a lot.

Don't try to make a liar out of me! (LOL) Since only about 20% of all judgments are ever collected on that means one can never tell if or when they will become part of that 20%. To be on the safe side I'll tell you they will file garnishment 30 days after the judgment is memorialized and asset hearings immediately after that and then tell you don't believe a word I just said because it sure isn't likely to happen just that way. But then another way for me to be safe is that it will happen whenever they decide to make it happen. That didn't help you any either. Sorry about that.

Don't feel lonely! There are only 2 things that I can guarantee you. One is that I might be right in your case and the other is that I might not be right in your case. All I can do is to give you what I believe is common sense answers.

It don't make no common sense to me to just go waltzing into a buzz saw situation that has already got at least 100 rounds head start on you. The only way I know fight a buzz saw is to get as good a hammer as you can find and whack it a good hard one, try to break most or all it's teeth first. In otherwords, you just about got to blindside it.

And as far as I can see our courtrooms aren't much different than a buzz saw if you are the defendant. If you can't win as a defendant then you have obviously got to become the plaintiff somehow. Filing counter motions don't seem to have much of a track record either. Seems to me that filing counter motions or counter suits means you are trying to play the other man's game and my old daddy always told me I can't ever play the other man's game and win.

Ok, Pop then if that's the way it is then I got to go invent my own game. In this situation the only way I can think of is to file my own case against them if need be and on entirely different issues if possible.

Makes sense to me so now its up to you to figure out what makes sense to you.

 

Now here is what happens when you try to fight the system.

From a published story

LAWYER IN TRAINING
by Randy Cassingham

As part of his course work at High School, Brian D, 18, worked in his mother's law office as a paralegal. The "workexperience" class was even graded. His mother, attorney Diane D,
said the school provided a "checklist" of things it required, and Brian accomplished those requirements.

He performed the same tasks he would do if he were a paralegal in a law office, she said. "He prepared documents, met with clients." As his supervisor, it was up to her to give him a grade in the class. She gave him an A+.

Since the highest grade the school ever records is an A, that's what it put on his report card. When Brian protested, the School Board considered changing its grading system so it could record A+ grades. The board decided against making such a change.

That, Brian figures, endangered his chances of being named class
valedictorian, so with his mother's help, he filed a lawsuit against the County Intermediate School District, all seven members of the
school board, the school superintendent, and the high school's principal,
demanding that the court order the school to increase his grade to an A+.
In addition, it seeks a restraining order on class rankings until the
school takes into account his higher grade. Oh, and $25,000 in cash too,
please.

"I heard ahead of time [that the threat of a lawsuit] was out there,
but to worry about that would be wrong," said school board President
Harold B. "I felt I did what was right for the citizens"
in voting against changing the grade system. The possibility of a
restraining order against the school releasing grade rankings poses a
real problem for others, he says: students who need to know their class
rank won't be able to apply for college scholarships until the court
vacates the restraining order.

Clearly, Brian learned a lot while working at the law office, such as
invoking hardball ploys like inconveniencing innocent third parties as a
leveraging tactic. But County Judge Daniel K denied the
motion for a restraining order, leaving the school free to issue class
rankings. It named another student valedictorian, and Brian was named
second in his class. The other aspects of the suit are apparently still
pending.

My added commentary.
Didn't make any difference how bright the kid was or who his mother was he still hasn't beat the system, has he? In other words the entrenched power system won again.

 

Well.... that is certainly a ballsy approach. Might it work...perhaps. Will it be likely to put you in a very bad position? Yep. I still think for anyone not wanting to be a sacrifice the standard approach is much safer. I see the standard approach to be much more likely to be successful. I do not of course have the experience that Bill has. I also get the feeling Bill likes this approach because it is the contrarian approach. It would be great to get opinions from other vets. In any case good luck with your situation!

 

"Each state has a "sol" which determines when the judgment becomes final and it is usually the date when the judge memorializes the judgment but some states decree that it shall become final so many days after memorialization of the judgment. That date can often be found in the RCP for that state. After the judgment is memorialized I tend to think that the next thing to do is to go to the courthouse and get court certified copies with court clerk stamps on every copy so it is set in stone for sure and you can be certain that you have all the paperwork and then study it to see whether or not there are errors which deprived the court of jurisdiction and then if there are any you then prepare a motion to vacate void judgment and go file it as plaintiff using the docket numbers from the old case to file on. Then go home and start preparing your appeal so when the judge denies your motion you are all ready to strike the next blow. "

I dont understand. If there are errors on the judgement why would the motion to void it get denied? And once it is denied and you file an appeal aren't you back in the same situation as you were before? You are still in front of the judge who is in favor of the other side.

Can you please explain this strategy more?