Law for Written Proof?

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by rmk1825, Aug 11, 2001.

  1. rmk1825

    rmk1825 Member


    Where is the Law that states that upon my request, all creditors must show me written proof that the account in question is in fact mine?

  2. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    The validation process under the Fair Debt Collection Practices ACT requires "collection agencies" to validate a debt. This does not mean that they must show you anything, it only means that if you request the info, they must do so or quit the pursuit of the collection process. As far as creditors go, I am not sure if this is any particular law that requires them to with the FTC. There may be consumer laws that require it in your state.

    In reality, it doesn't matter what law states what. Whenever you ask a creditor or collection agency for validation for debt, you are asking them for any evidence of a contractual obligation to pay them. This "evidence would have to hold up to the rigorous,scrutiny of the court system. Computer printouts of miscellaneous items are not sufficient proof. (Some argue that if computer printouts are normal business practice they may be considered proof.)
  3. MikeB

    MikeB Banned


    I have a letter from a Utility in Texas that states the PUC says having a customer's SSN, DL number, and address is proof enough. Isn't that scary? I am fighting something like that right now.
  4. Hal

    Hal Well-Known Member


    My personal take on this is that it is the Utility company's responsibility to ensure the person opening the account is indeed the person they say they are.

    Although the Public Utilities Commission is a good advocate for the consumer in most states they are basically a regulatory agency and not part of the justice system.

    If it were I in your situation, I would file a small claims suit and let them go to court and prove that the account was indeed yours.

    PUC policy and a judge interpeting the actual statutes are two different animals.

    As I posted in a previous post about this, I was very successful with a Utility company and the PUC by writing angry letters - had that not worked I certainly would have filed a suit.
  5. MikeB

    MikeB Banned


    Thanks and I agree. I wrote a letter today through to Experian with CC to three Congressmen. Monday I am calling the Utility to try and settle with payment for deletion again. I guess the next letter should be to FTC and PUC in Texas. I haven't decided if filing a small claims lawsuit would be worth the trouble or not. Ltr.
  6. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    I disagree:
    You can print out anything use any figures you want, so how does a print out prove anything?
    Same thing with bills.
    It makes no diffrence how the doucment was created!Computer,typewriter hand written etc!
  7. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Great so give them this info on every one and we will
    all owe them
    So now lets prove it's enough in small clims court!
  8. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Could you be more specific?
  9. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

  10. MikeB

    MikeB Banned


    The letter states verbatim:

    "Proof of debt, as defined by the Public Utility Commission of Texas, states contractual obligation begins when the customer contacts the utility company to apply for service and furnishes the utility proper identifications. In your case we had both yours and your wife's social security and drivers license information along with phone numbers and place of employment."

    Maybe they should have called my employer to tell me I had a bill to pay? LOL. Regardless, maybe it's partly my fault, but they could have made a better effort to contact me about the bill before making a chargeoff. At least I should be able to pay the debt and have it removed.

    I still find it funny how they say the bill was returned to them, but they admit they have the correct forwarding address, and I had no problems getting other bills at that address.
  11. SofaKing

    SofaKing Well-Known Member


    Have they flat out rejected your offer of payment for deletion? Did they reject it in writing? If so, I would work up the channels and plead your case.

    Write the "Director(s)" and tell them it's all a misunderstanding and if they will just accept your payment and delete the bad credit entry everyone will be happy.

    In the name of all that is Good and Holy, why don't these creditors wise up! Just DELETE the darn thing and most folks will PAY!!


    "I'm educated... I spent 3 years at Penn State.... er... State Penn." Dean Martin
  12. MikeB

    MikeB Banned

    I was told that is not their policy. I am going to call once more and then send a certified letter negotiating payment for deletion for the "misunderstanding" and then go from there.
    Thanks SK
  13. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Tell them it's not your policy to pay for putting bad marks on your credit report!
  14. godaddyo

    godaddyo Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't even admit that the bill is mine. Make them prove it. If the are quoting the utilites commision, I would file a complaint with the utilities commision. Dont give out any incriminating evidence. Make sure that your preivious address is deleted from your reports before doing anything else. Dont lie, but dont tell them that you may owe them anything. If they ask if you lived there before, tell them you dont recall. There is no fair way to play this game. If you play it fair (by their standards), you will probably lose. By the way who is collecting on the debt. A collection agency? You will want to attack the source of the reporting.

    I never did understand how a company that charges you a different amount every month for their services, can charge off an account without contacting the debtor. They always claim that they sent something. Dont you think you would have recieved at least one late notice. There had to be more than one. This means that they screwed up and they expect you to take the blame. This sytem is screwed in my book..
  15. MikeB

    MikeB Banned

    Thanks for the advice guys. I will post my results when I get some.......
  16. Hal

    Hal Well-Known Member

    I would have written back and said: Per your definition "states contractual obligation begins when the customer contacts the utility " - now prove that

    I am the one who contacted you and provided this information.

    I have known families, that had service restored by telephone and electric utilities by calling and having a new account opened in their childrens names.
  17. MikeB

    MikeB Banned

    I was wondering that myself. What the hell does "the states contractual obligation" have to do with this situation? I think they have things mixed up here.
  18. bbauer

    bbauer Banned


    "Proof of debt, as defined by the Public Utility Commission of Texas, states contractual obligation begins when the customer contacts the utility company to apply for service and furnishes the utility proper identifications.
    They are not messed up at all. The meaning is quite clear and plain, but let me reword that so you can understand. It has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the conractual obligation of a state (as in governmental entity.) All you need to do is to understand what "states" means when it is not capitalized. If it is not capitalized then it is not referring to a politically unified body of people occupying a geographical territory nor their collective affairs. Rather, it means "to say" something, to make a statement about something or someone or an implication of a condition or circumstance.

    So, if we reword the statement so that it's relationship to the rest of the statement becomes clear, we have:

    "Proof of debt, as defined by the Public Utility Commission of Texas, says contractual obligation begins when the customer contacts the utility company to apply for service

    Hopefully changing the word "states" contractual obligation begins to "says" contractual obligation begins will bring it more within your level of comprehension.
  19. MikeB

    MikeB Banned

    Re: Mikeb


    No, I was not confusing the meaning of the word "state". I should have had the quote after "the", not before. I earned a B.S. degree while working full-time up to 12 hours a day. I also earned a full tuition scholarship and Spanish scholarship to college. I also feel that I am endowed with a fair amount of common sense. It is apparent that you lack both.
    I won't try to explain what I meant in the previous post because you will simply turn things around to suit your needs. Again, if you can't say anything constructive to help people, shut up.
    Keep personally attacking me or anyone else, and I will ask PBM to remove you.
  20. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    Re: Mikeb

    You have a nice one.

    I might return the favor too

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