I have received some letters from CA's regarding my validation requests. I had never heard of either one until I reviewed my CRs. Both sent some old billings statements (just a couple of them) and are stating that this is "reasonable and adequate" validation. What does a couple of monthly statements tell me? I wanted to know how they came up with the bogus activity dates and debt amount. They refused and state they do not have to send any info since they have had the account more than the 30 day period. I'm sorry, but don't I have the right to know what/why/how you are collecting a debt - even if it was 2, 5 or 10 years from the date of charge-off or sent to a collections company? Especially as most of us did not know we had this right and were scared of the CA's. Basically, they state that if you didn't dispute it the first 30 days, you can't now.
CA's are lying, manipulative SOB's...Period. You can dispute after 30 days. I think that many CA's are confused when it comes to the laws they are supposed to be following. Although you have missed the 30 day window of opportunity during which they cannot proceed with any collection activity until the validation is complete, you never lose the right to demand validation and they must always comply within 30 days or they have violated the law. According to several FTC opinions (especially the Wollman Letter) regarding the FDCPA, mere itemization of what the debt collector already has does not accomplish the goal of validation. It is important that the verification and identity of the consumer and the amount of the debt be obtained directly from the creditor. They must provide a contractual agreement between the original creditor and you. For instance, something that you signed stating you agreed to the terms of the purchase, or credit card terms. I would write another letter and tell them that they need to provide more documentation in an effor t to validate this debt. Be a pain in their sides; they have definitely been one in yours. Hope this helps.
They would be wrong. A couple of old statements does not constitute validation. There are some FTC opinion letters that address what does and what does not. You can send them an intent to sue if they can not provide proper validation. Here is a link to one provided by LKH -Peace, Dave
mommyof2, Did either of the CA's place the collection accounts "in dispute" on your credit report(s)? If they did not, and the 30 day timeframe is up, include this violation in your estoppel letter to them. Make it clear you understand your rights to proper vaildation, and if they do not provide it, they need to delete the accounts. Make them aware as well that they are already in violation of the FDCPA and the FCRA by reporting the erroneous accounts AND not placing them "in dispute" during the valdation process you requested.
lol!!! Sorry Nave!!! But I just can't stand seeing those nasty CA's preying on us any longer. My fingers type fast as a speeding bullet!
Thanks! I needed the backup. I sent them a letter regarding their lack of validation and sent a copy of an FTC opinion. They pretty much laughed at it and said it didn't apply, so I thought I must have missed something. Glad to see I didn't. I don't know what else to do except hound them with letters. They can't even determine what the exact amount owed is. One letter states one amount, another double that amount!!!!!! They also admit that they may not find any info from the OC so they will just get someone from the OC to sign a statement that I owe the account. I thought that was funny! Our small claims court has stated that the CA has the right to have a lawsuit filed in their state, as they don't have an office in mine. Not sure how to address this next letter. How ugly can I get without looking like I've lost it?
Yes, they did add the dispute after I sent my validation letter. They have already re-started collection attempts based on the joke they call validation. Their attorneys are replying to my mail - don't know what that means. 2nd question (not related): By the way, if you request an investigation of an account (disputed) through the CRA - do they notify the OC or CA that you are disputing it? Does the CA have records of this notification?
Wow, this CA is comprised of a bunch of fools. Would you mind sharing which CA it is? Okay, someone signing a statement STILL does not validate this debt. Where is the hard, cold proof that you owe this money???? If we could just get people to sign statements saying they know something as fact, we wouldn't need fingerprints, or evidence to convict murders. Someone could just "sign a statement" and say, I know that this person did this although I have absoulutely NO evidence that they did. Whatever...tell this CA to take a freakin' hike. As far as the next letter goes, I would simply let them know (maybe not in this language) that you have more than enough violations to sue them. By writing you letters with basically telliing you that you have no rights, they have "given" you more than enough evidence to sue them.
What state are you in? Some states require the CA to be licensed or bonded in the state before they can collect. In that case you could sue the local address of the company. You should be able to sue them without going to their state to file the suit somehow, maybe small claims is not the answer. I do not know the answer to that one. Sounds like you have grounds for an easy win, and with your proof you have them on several violations not the least of which is collecting on a debt that they admit they have no proof from the OC, maybe you could find a lawyer to take the case on contingency...easy cash is easy cash. Before the $1000 per violation "fast cash bait" is removed -Peace, Dave
Alas but some are wrong. After the initial 30 days the CA may assume the debt is yours. But when they recieve a validation request they must stop collections activities. period no if ands or buts. It doesnt matter if the first 30 days are up or not. Both items are goverened by seperate parts of the FDCPA. Nail them to the wall
So.... Let's take worst case scenario: I owe the debt (I don't, but let's pretend I do). I missed my 30-day period because I didn't get the letter they state I did. I find out about them through the CR and send a letter to the CRA asking them to remove this account - but it comes back verified. I'm lost, upset and haven't found this site yet. I don't want to call the company as I have spoken with a CA before and will NEVER do it again. I again look at my CR and find the account now posted twice - different account numbers - same debt amount, etc... I again dispute with CRA and one is removed. However, now I have found this site and become aware of my rights, so I send a validation letter. I'm not afraid of them anymore. Over 30 days later, I get the "laughable" validation paperwork. I immediately write them that it isn't enough and send the FTC opinion letters. They now write back and say -so what, your a loser and we want our money and we do not have to send you anything else but we will note the account as disputed. Also, we are reporting one amount, claiming another amount. How many violations is that? I'm sure I left something out of the 'scenario', but that should cover most of it. I'm about to write that letter - just want to make sure I hit each and every violation. I'm not real happy at this moment! I wish I could find a bettter website for OK laws as they operate out of that state. I found one but it would take you forever to find the applicable statutes. By the way, our state requires them to be bonded. So, I wonder if that would mean they have to have an office here????????????? Maybe that's just a long shot.
Alas, did she sign a CRRR green card when they first contacted her (claims they did NOT contact her AT ALL, she found it on her report)...how can they prove she was contacted and that it has been more than 30 days therefore she owes the debt. Get Real!! -Peace, Dave BTW you gotta know the ASS-U-ME saying! The CA assuming the debt is hers and valid would be a costly mistake if she wanted to push it.
Where in the FDCPA does it say that if a validation is sent after the first 30 days that the ca must cease collection activity?
Mom, I found this link with the help of Sassyinaz, maybe you can find their address by looking for your state and then finding info on the licensee's address. Sassy showed an online search for states like New Mexico, then I searched Maryland and found out that Maryland lists them (NCO had like a thousand licenses and addresses). Search around, I bet you can get the answer, or a link to an phone# or address where you can find the address of the local licensed authorized agent. -Peace, Dave
The CA's don't read far enough or read only what works for them, see (c)., because you didn't validate w/i the initial 30 days doesn't mean you can't at a later date. § 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g] (a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing -- (1) the amount of the debt; (2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed; (3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; (4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and (5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor. (b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. (c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.
