Link to Estoppel Letter and...

Here's the estoppel letter:

http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=85492#post85492

 

Here's the estoppel letter:
==============Change 60 days to 30 days

 

That version of the infamous estoppel letter says that you are going to sue them in 15 days. Do you even know how to do that? And if so are you actually going to want to do that? If you don't even know how to do it then how are you going to do what you threaten to do? Small claims isn't really all that hard in most jurisdictions. Usually they have the forms right there at the court and you ask for a copy and fill it out and that's about the size of it. But all courts don't have those nice handy forms to hand you so do you know whether your court has them or not? Suppose you count on the fact they do and you waltz down to the court house and find out they don't and you have to dream up your own? Then what will you do?

And let us look at the above paragraph from the estoppel. Is what it says you are demanding that which is required as proof of the debt? And what statute or court ruling states that they must provide you with proof of their authority in the matter?

And how about these questions?
Are you real sure that those two sections of law quoted do address your right to ask that which you are demanding?
1.Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in thisalleged matter.

Do you know the answer to this question?
2.What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?
And this question. What is it that authorizes them to collect the debt?
3.What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?
Do you live in Florida? If not what are the requirements they must meet in order to do business in your state? If you don' t live in Florida then you are going to have to change that, aren't you?
4.Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of Florida

Just what is acceptable evidence of the alleged debt? And demanding that it bear your signature? What if there never was a contract or it was a unilateral contract?
5.Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.

If you don't know the answers to those questions and more you might want to think about the advisability of using it at this time. If you cannot answer all those questions you just might want to do a wee bit more homework before you send it off.

 

Oh Yes, have you actually gone down to the local law library and read that case so you know it and understand it and it context in the law? Shepardized it so you know how many other cases have referenced it and how and why the attorneys in those other cases made reference to that case?

I've read it and shepardized it. Maybe you should too.

And please understand that I'm not saying you should not use it. Au Contrare, I'm just saying that before you grab stuff up and start flinging it about you should read it and understand it well and understand the whys and the wherefores.

 

Ah yes - the Estoppel letter from HELL.


I have no idea who came up with this thing but Bill's right.

If you insist on using it, at least take out the Gravens cite reference and this bloody RIDICULOUS paragraph at the bottom:

"I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief. "


LOL

There are actually a couple letters in the sample library that need serious work. This is #1 on the list. Using this letter, AS IS, couldn't possibly make one look any more foolish.

 

BTW Bill,

This is one heck of an area of confusion.


I'm thinking about a serious thread outlining exactly what Estoppel is and how it works, (when I get time).

Wanna co-author?

 

I have a good estoppell letter

Scumbag CA
Dirt City
Dirt City, CA 66666


Stop bugging me and reporting bogus information. This is a letter advising you that your company, Scumbag CA LLC, is officially being notified to leave me alone and delete this crap from my credit report.

I took time out of my busy schedule of eating popcorn and beer and wrote you jerks a letter on toilet paper, sent it certified on 1/1/2003. As of today 2/22/03, I have not heard a peep from you. Since I believe that your company employs half-wits, I sent another letter certified mail 2/1/2003 requesting a copy of the contract, bill or something that shows that I owe your company. As of today, I still have not received any information from you.

You guys are in violation of a lot of stuff which is outlined within the FD CPA and I will not hesitate to sue your behinds off. Trust me, I am unemployed, running of of unemployment and really frustrated about the way that humans are overusing the earth's natural resources. Also, let it be known, since I do have alot to do, I will not use a quote of the FD CPA in this letter, look it up yourself.

cc: FTC
cc: my lawyer, sheister and associates (FOR A BUCK WE'D SUE OUR OWN MOTHERS)
cc: BBB
cc: George W.Bush, President of the United States.


(just a little levity to brighten up a late Saturday night

 

Aha,

A new Nutcase Letter.

LOL

 

Do I want to co-author on it? Butch, Psychdoc and I and some attorneys and others have argued over this on my board until we ended up about like the two lawyers who invented copper wire by arguing over a penny. The end result of the discussion was that they seemingly just got tired of arguing with some dumb old goat who couldn't see their logic and was too durn loggerheaded to admit they won and still won't admit it.

Some of those messages are probably still lying around over there somewhere. On top of that, Richard Cornforth, Pat Patton, Mark Mayes and more of us have discussed estoppel from time to time but there has never been any disagreement on what it is, what it does nor how to use it in that circle. There are a few people lurking here from time to time who are acquainted with those people I mention. Anybody who knows those I mention know that they probably spend the majority of their time researching law. When those gentlemen study law they are like the little maggot. They are in dead earnest.

Be that as it may, what piqued my interest after all the dust had settled was the next question which should have been obvious to me but wasn't at first was this:
If it is so dumb as it obviously is then why would anybody who had enough smarts to go to a law library and look up the Englehart v. Gravens case use something like that? There had to have been a reason why a supposedly intelligent person would use a letter so obviously dumb as that.

Guess what? There is. In theory at least its got to be the hottest thing since cold fusion. Who ever pipe dreamed that thing wasn't so dumb after all. In fact, the way it is worded and the way it should work in theory makes me believe that the original author may very well have been John Gliha of Ocala, Florida who also invented the original "million dollar letter" which most folks on just about every board on the internet now call the validation letter.

Lizard King and I went round and round about that letter and John Gliha himself and I even got into that little spitting contest by phone. Naturally, he stood up for Lizard King. And then Lizard King finally admitted where he got the letter which I had so roundly accused him of plagerizing and adding a bunch of his own jargon to and calling it his. In fact, that was the first of the spitting contests I got into around here that eventually ended up getting me kicked off of this and other boards.

But let me get one thing real clear. Lizard King is a great guy. I really hated to be responsible for having put him down the way I did and I sincerely regret it to this day. But you see, I had John Gliha's original million dollar letter long before I ever stumbled into this message board so I knew what the diffferences were between John's validation letter and the additions and changes that Lizard King had added to it.

I didn't mind the thought that Lizard King had plagerized John's letter because after all this is basically a monkey see monkey do world. We can easily see that fact of life every time we see an airplane fly overhead or a space shuttle take off for outer space. The whole thing evolved from man watching the birds and wishing he could fly like the birds and each new "monkey" has built on the mistakes of the last "monkey" until we have now almost reached the stars.

What I did take great exception to was adding a bunch of extra garbage to it, none of which made any common sense to me because I usually take great exception to adding things to letters which are not supported by law nor by ruling of the courts. Doing so never improves any letter.
But his doing so did not detract from the fact that Lizard King is one great guy and is nobody's fool. And no matter how much I rail against John Gliha he most definitely is nobody's fool either.
And make no mistake about it, the estoppel letter does have it's hidden purpose and I'm not too sure it ought to be changed by all that much. Sometimes it pays to be dumb, to be dense, to be ignorant. Or at least to appear to be so to the other man. Then if he takes some action based on his belief that you are too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time or because he is angry with you it's almost a sure bet he will make a mistake that you can profit from in the process of trying to teach you a hard lesson. In fact, I want my enemy good and mad at me every time. Boiling mad if at all possible. Why? The madder he gets the more mistakes he makes.

So once I determined that no matter how dumb and stupid the estoppel is it still has it purpose I decided to pretty much leave it alone, use it as is, let it do it's thing and go on to better things.

So will I help co author a new estoppel letter? Sorry, but in this case I say that if it ain't broke don't fix it.

And a word of caution. What I have said here is going to cause lots of folks to stop and think and hunt for that hidden "trick" that makes the estoppel letter effective. Thats fine. Great in fact. But if you find it and figure it out then for heaven's sakes, SHUT UP because if you spill it all over the board you might make others sit up and take notice of how smart you are but at the same time you will be violating one of my basic principles which is "never teach the other guy how smart you are."

If everybody here were all friends with the same goals in mind then that would be different but anybody thats been around these boards for more than about a week knows full well that such is not the case here. There are far too many lurkers who are connected with those we need to defeat and if we teach them how smart we are then we also bring about our own downfall and do ourselves far more harm than good and we don't need that.

 

Maybe you ought to think again. As I said in my last lengthy post, it does work enough of the time to make it very worthwhile to use just as it is.

As Butch pointed out it might be improved a little bit, "tweaked" if you will but if we change it by much it will be ruined. I had not really looked all that much at the particular phrase he attacked but he's probably right on that score at least.

Another point I rail against is the use of such flowery phrases as "I am dismayed" or "I am disappointed" or "this is not a refusal to pay but rather a demand that you spit on the sidewalk" or whatever. I guess there isn't really all that much wrong with it but those kinds of phrases just rub me the wrong way. I always want to look at such letters and think about how I would react if somebody I was trying to collect from sent it to me and I'm not real sure how I would actually react but it sure would not be to the sender's liking. It would be far more likely to get my dander up than it would to get him the results he actually wanted.

I would probably be to make sure he got a full and complete listing of each and every transaction in the account and got it quick because I would know that getting what he asked for would be the last thing he ever wanted in the first place.

 

personally, I was thinking of a slacker nutcase series. You know where the person will take the back of the CA letter and write a nice little letter advising them to beat it and stop bugging them. Of course the letter would be handwritten in crayon, orange, I think. Sent certified mail of course with a demand for overnight mail, due to this person not wanting to get up and go to the mailbox....lol

 

Well, I realize you were just joking but while I do send them a copy of their letter lots of times I believe one should send them a photocopy of their letter. I would never send an original.

Giving back the evidence is never a cool idea.

 

Re: Re: Link to Estoppel Letter and

Well, the photocopying would take too much effort and since I am a slacker, I would probably miss a good episode of Jerry Springer of Ricky Lake. As far as the evidence is concerned, you are correct. Don't want to be too much of a slacker..lol

 

Re: Re: Link to Estoppel Letter and

If thats the case I almost be willing to bet you got a TV in every room including the bathroom.

If so, don't feel lonely. While I don't have one in the bathroom or the bedroom there are two in the living room, one in my workshop and and 5 in my office.

Got a few VCRs in my office too. 16 of them to be exact. And a few video cameras scattered around the premises too.

All of that and what program do I watch the most? Ten o'clock news every night for about 15 minutes. Normally that's about it.