Lizardking-check ths letter

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Ender, Apr 22, 2001.

  1. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    This is the letter I plan on sending to the original creditor. The original creditor sent me a letter saying that they are repoting to the CR (all 3), that the debt was sold to XXXX COllection Agency. However, I know that this CA also sold the debt to another. You inquired as to whether I sent validation to the CA as well.. yes, when I sent the 30 or so letters out, I sent out validations to every creditor/CA on my list. Anyhow, the original creditor said I would need to contact XXXX Collection Agency since they purchase this debt. However, how can I get them to remove the tradelines from my CR? This is the letter I am planning on sending to them.. what do you think?


    city st zip

    Re: Acct # 0000 0000 0000 0000

    To Whom It May Concern:

    I have received an incomplete response regarding my demand for proof; since my notice of dispute dated December 5, 2000 and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

    Please be advised that I did not not request a "verification" that you have my mailing address and account information, I requested a "validation"; that is, competent evidence that I ever had any contractual obligation to pay you.

    In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine.

    For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information:

    1) Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.
    2) What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?
    3) What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?
    4) Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of Florida.
    5) Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.

    You have 15 days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed.

    Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act.

    Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter (with return receipt) will begin my small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $5,000 in damages for the following:

    1) Defamation
    2) Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud
    3) Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act

    After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriffâ??s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment.

    For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.

    Witness My Hand and Seal this 13th day of February 2001.
  2. roni

    roni Well-Known Member

    Re: Lizardking-check ths lette

    some people just dont care
  3. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    Re: Lizardking-check ths lette

    thanks for the positive response roni.

    Anyway, can anyone offer comments on this letter? Thx in advance..
  4. roni

    roni Well-Known Member

    Re: Lizardking-check ths lette

    sorry enderwiggin. i shouldnt have taken my frustration out on you. it is just that well, oh just forget it. i am just disappointed.
  5. Bill Bauer

    Bill Bauer Guest

    Small claims court

    Have you checked to see what the limits are to stay in small claims court where you plan to file the action?

    Telling them you are going to sue for $5,000 in small claims court when the maximum that the court will accept is maybe $2000 or $2500 before it must be filed in District Court might just give them the idea that you are only bluffing and if they get that kind of idea, that you are full of it, they may decide to teach you a lesson and just go ahead and file judgement on you and then follow that with almost immediate garnishment. Just to teach you a lesson and make an example out of you.

    A bit of bluffing may be just fine, but it would be best that the bluff at least be within the realm of possibility.

    Just one of the several things you should be thinking about.

    You don't even have to spend the time and trouble to look it up in the lawbooks. All you have to do is call down the the clerk of the court and see what the limit is that you can sue for in the court having jurisdiction. Easy to do and you might keep out of some hotwater.

    You should never accept anything someone posts on a message board if you are thinking or taking a chance on having to go to court. You should always seek help from professionals who can keep you out of trouble.

    Be safe and check things out. Don't go off half-cocked making statements that you cannot actually back up to collection agencies or credit bureaus or creditors.based on what you have seen on a message board.

    If you are going to take someone's advice, you need to check out that advice with those who are professionals and who live in your area where you can easily contact them by phone and ask them questions. Your own attorney should be a good place to start. If you want to use it as is, type it up and go over to your attorney and ask him what he thinks of the strategy you are contemplating. If he thinks it's the way to go, then go for it. If he thinks it's a bad idea, he will tell you so and give you his reasons.

    After that, you can still do whatever you want.

    Bill Bauer
  6. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

    Re: Small claims court

    So you are saying that the limit that I can sue for is different based on where the location of where the court order is going to be served or where I am located?
  7. SM

    SM Guest

    Re: Small claims court

    I agree wholeheartedly with Bill on this one. I felt the same way when I decided to go after GMAC. But I then calmed down and made sure I did ALL my research. The limit in small claims court definitely differs in each court. Rather than claiming you are going to sue for X amount, put what the lawsuit will be claiming and that you will seek all damages to the extent of the law or court.
  8. Bill Bauer

    Bill Bauer Guest

    Depends on what state law is

    Depends on what state law is in your state.
    It can vary from state to state, but what is important is that you not be seen as saying you are going to sue in small claims court for $5,000 if the limit for small claims courts in your state is $2500 for example. IF you were way out of bounds, it would most definitely make you look foolish to anyone who read your letter and knew what the actual limits were.

    If you want to state $5,000, and you don't want to go find out what the limits are for small claims court in your state, then just knock out the "small claims" part and then you would not have to worry about it.

    It's a small point, but even small points can make the difference between believeability and getting taken seriously.

    You have seen a lot of examples of that right here on this message board, haven't you?

    Why would collection agency people be any different? They will pick you to pieces in a heartbeat if they can.

    Bill Bauer
  9. Bill Bauer

    Bill Bauer Guest

    A nincompoop thing to do

    4) Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of Florida.

    This is a great idea, but a nincompoop thing to do.
    Here is why.
    Let us suppose that some collection agency actually had let their business and collection agency licenses lapse due to some oversight. You might just wake them up to the fact if they actually paid any attention to this line. Better approach would be to simply check with the Secretary of State's office where they do buinsess and the City licenseing bureau to see if they do have up to date licenses and then lay that on the credit bureaus if they don't. Already having the proof in hand, you can hit them like a ton of bricks. Otherwise you just gave away what might have been a real weapon.

    A much better one to lay on them would be a 1099-c demand.
    I use that all the time in credit wrench letters.

    Most business people have no idea what a 1099-c is or how to use it, and we can all be very thankful they don't.
    For those of you who are not familiar with the 1099-c and it's terrible power, here is the story on it.

    Although there are multiple forms of the 1099-c, the one we should be interested in here is the Forgiveness of Debt form. What a creditor can do when he has no chance of getting paid is to file a form 1099-c forgiveness of debt form on the debtor. Here is an anology of what can happen.

    Let us assume for the purposes of conversation that I am Alli Babba the Honest Camel Trader. Lizzie comes to my lot and he buys one of my many camels for $10 or $10,000 or whatever and off across the desert he goes. The camel drops dead out in the middle and Lizzie has to walk home. He goes out and buys another camel somewhere and refuses to pay me.
    I file a form 1099-c forgiveness of debt on him and if he didn't report the $10 or $10,000 on his income tax as income, and pay the taxes on it, he is likely to have some very unhappy campers on his doorstep one day. Them IRS people are not going to be the least bit happy with Lizzie to say the least. If the amount is fairly large, they are likely to be talking about willful failure to report, attempted tax evasion, or whatever. They are likely to be wanting to add interest, penalties and heaven only knows what else. It could get pretty nasty.

    Now then, before everyone goes getting all shook up and heading for the tall timber or shaking in their boots every time someone knocks at the door.let's examine what the likelyhood of that happening might actually be.

    I'd guess that since so few creditors actually know about that or think to use it, the chances of it's actually happening ought to be about the same as one's chances of getting hit on the head with a chunk of rock from outer space. Slim to none.

    But that don't stop us from demanding that they swear they haven't done that to us, does it? And of course, we would want to use language that would not give them any bright ideas or they might just do it.

    And the big advantage of demanding it is that they will most likely ignore that part if they reply to you and then you scream that what they did provide you with didn't conform to the request you made, so in net effect, they didn't obey the law and provide you with the proofs they demanded, Time limit is up, fellers and you are SOL. ADIOS!

    Bill Bauer
  10. Kitty

    Kitty Well-Known Member

    Re: A nincompoop thing to do

    That is a great letter to write, but it sounds kind of extreme for the "lay person". They might turn around and counter-sue you just for indicating all the terms of the law. But, it could very well serve the creditor or agency its true purpose, and that is to assist with our request for validation of a bill.
  11. Bill Bauer

    Bill Bauer Guest

    A nincompoop thing to do

    They used to be able to do a lot of things they cannot do anymore. They used to be able to initiate suit at the drop of a hat even if you were disputing. Years ago, just the very act of disputing would likely get you sued. You didn't have near the safeguards we have now. That's great, and was a long time coming.

    They used to send out bills that actually looked like government checks. I used to love those. I had a special routine I used with those.

    I would endorse the back, just like it was a check. And I had a friend who workd at the bank so I got her to give me one of the bank's old rubber stamps used to cancel checks. It had the bank's name on it.Then I'd use red ink and stamp their bill with the bank's stamp all over it. Cancelled by this little bank in a very small town.
    Next I would write them the following letter and mail them that bill and the letter.

    Dear Acme Collexshun Ajuncie

    I need you help. I went to my male box an I looked in it fer my welfare check, and surenuff it was in there. So I took my welfare check over to the local bank jus like allus. And I put my name on the back jus like allus and stood there awaitin fer my money jus like allus. This here lady on th other side the winder got real upset and went got some dood and gave my welfare check to him. He came out and asked me lots of bad questions like was I tryin to be fuunie or tryin to beat the bank I askd him if the gobermunt done run outta money? He tole me that wuznt evun a check.

    Now see here. I know you put some kinda hex on my welfare check and took my welfare check and put this thing in my male box. My kids is hongry and I gotta getem sumpin to eat. You cum git this fool thing you put in my male box and you bring my welfare check bak or I gonna turn you in.

    I guess they figured they wasn't likely to get much out of somebody that couldn't write any better than that,on welfare and a bunch of kids to feed and somehow, I never heard another peep out of them.

    Bill Bauer

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