Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation You know the name of the HMO? You know the facility that treated your daughter? A little work on your part would have tracked down the Doctor That is what you should have done when you received the check, a little work then would have prevented this problem now
Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation Why do I have to spend my valuable time trying to track down this provider? This was their mistake! Do you think they would do this if this was a credit due to me? No, I know they wouldn't because I once overpaid a Dr. Do you think he said hey, I think I will track down this person and pay them their money back (they even had all my current info). No, he didn't return the overpayment on his own. I had to request his office to return my money. Just like they should have billed me.
Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation This sounds like the scenario and from the tone of your previous post it seems that you tried to get one over on people you legally owe a debt to, and now you are claiming to be the "injured party" because they have caught up with you
Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation I am not sure what tone my post has taken. I just happen to be responding to the accusations made against me. I do see what tone your post and whychats has though. You both seem to be very accusatory and judgmental. Anyone who starts a post with "I do not wish to sound critical, however" has every intention of being critical or it would not be stated like so. I just asked a simple question, would a judgment be awarded if I actually allowed it get that far and is a computer printout considered proper validation especially if this printout is not in my name. I answered truthfully to the questions asked of me and then was shamed and told what a bad person I was for cashing a check in my name and holding it until I received a bill. BTW, I have spoke to my attorney his advice has been taken. Thanks to those who have helped in a non-accusing way.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation I dunno what's hard about this or why you are pissed at WhyChat for him having told you what you didn't want to hear. You've made nothing but excuses, and all bad ones, for cashing a check that was given to you to pay for the medical services rendered for your kid. And of course, you can be held responsible for your actions -- funny how life works, eh? Sassy
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation But does this give the CA the right to violate his rights. I thought this was the original issue that we were discussing?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation I didn't see any violations, LB, unless she is going to claim that isn't her daughter. I'll go back and re-read though, see what I missed. Sassy
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation The purpose of having an HMO is so that the consumer DOESN'T HAVE to do 'the work'. If the provider correctly bills the insurance company, the insurance company correctly mails the payment directly to the provider. If the provider screwed the insurance company forms up, and the insurance company had no way of knowing how to make the payment directly to the provider, they logically presumed that any logical provider would attempt to send a bill to the consumer, sometime BEFORE two years had passed. What is illegal about cashing a check which is made out to you, because the insurance company had no way of directly paying the provider. If she wouldn't have cashed the check within 60-90 days, all that would have been left is a worthless piece of paper because the check would be STALE DATED by now. SHE HELD ON TO THE MONEY FOR TWO YEARS, WAITING FOR THE PROVIDER TO SEND HER A BILL, DIRECTLY!!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation "I dunno what's hard about this or why you are pissed at WhyChat for him having told you what you didn't want to hear." Sassy, please take a step back and read whychat's first post. This is what was said: """"I do not wish to sound critical, however, I STRONGLY urge you to IMMEDIATELY pay the Dr. or Hospital, or whoever treated your child. You can, if you wish, use the HIPAA letter "insert a" from my website. You took a check from your insurance Co. that THEY sent to you in good faith, believing you would use it to pay the medical bill it was issued for. You SOMEHOW converted it into your own account, either by forgery or deception, as it was made out to the Dr. You are potentially liable for a LOT more trouble than a "ding" on your credit report."""""" Yes, that put me on the defense. Pissed? I don't even know any of you why would I be pissed. All whychat could have said is that I think you should pay this creditor because you accepted a check in good faith to pay provider and could be liable for more than just a credit ding. Sounds different now doesn't it. I do not understand how this has turned into a "you are a bad person" post. That is fine giving opinions but to do so in such an accusing way, please. I didn't ask for morals here. "I didn't see any violations, LB, unless she is going to claim that isn't her daughter." What makes my situation so different? Sassy, I believe the provider did not send me the proper validation (i.e., I was sent a computer printed statement, not even done in a professional way, in my daughter's name (not mine) with a patient balance of 0.00). Yes, she is my daughter, but how do they know that I am the responsible party? Maybe the other parent is the responsible party. Would this validation be acceptable if if were let's say the cable company? How about Citibank? You see my point? "You've made nothing but excuses, and all bad ones, for cashing a check that was given to you to pay for the medical services rendered for your kid." As far as excuses go, if I wanted to make excuses I would have said that in this 2 1/2 year time period my company closed up, laid me off, was laid off for almost a year, used my life saving which, unfortunately, included that money and I have had several jobs since. Still trying to catch up. But see, even though that is true, that is NOT a valid excuse. :-( Maybe I posted on the wrong forum....
: Medical Debt Validation I don't either unless the CA is or does keep trying to collect as they haven't furnished the poster the VAL. he requested. I thought this was the issue we were discussing; not the morals or ethics of the original poster. Just seems to me that some have gotten off topic here by being judgmental about the original poster.
: Medical Debt Validation 1*If the provider correctly bills the insurance company, the insurance company correctly mails the payment directly to the provider. 2*What is illegal about cashing a check which is made out to you, because the insurance company had no way of directly paying the provider jam ================== 1*When there is a contract between the provider and the insurer the consumer is not responsible for any screw ups between the two. 2*Nothing at all. Why Chat has a lot of good advice, but is off base on that one.
: Medical Debt Validation 1*You took a check from your insurance Co. that THEY sent to you in good faith, believing you would use it to pay the medical bill it was issued for. 2*You SOMEHOW converted it into your own account, either by forgery or deception, as it was made out to the Dr. 3*You are potentially liable for a LOT more trouble than a "ding" on your credit report. 4*OF COURSE you were not billed, they billed the Insurance, and the Insurance PAID, but you diverted the funds. 5*NOW you are claiming "violations" because when they didn't get the $$ from the insurance Co. they finally billed you?? 6*What did you EXPECT?? They were likely notified by the insurance Co. that YOU had received THEIR $$. 7*BTW, if you still have the same Insurance Co., you had better hope they don't find out about it, it is grounds for kicking you out for insurance fraud. Why Chat ======================= 8*This sounds like the scenario pd11604 --------------------------------------------- 1*It really doesn't matter if they believed this or not. The check was made out to amdmp giving him the right to cash it and do what ever he wants to with the money. There is no law saying what he had to do with the money from the check. 2*Since when is cashing a check made out to you converting, forgery or deception? The check was not made out to the Dr.per(Who was the check made out to?lbrown59 The answer is me.amdmp) 3*What is the liability for cashing a check made out to you?????????????? 4*Wrong again see No.2 5*Incorrect the potential violation is the CAs violations of the FDCPA. BTW should the CAs violations be ignored due to yours and pd11604s judgmental allegations against the poster??????? 6*If the check didn't have their name on it he didn't receive their money. 7*Cashing a check made out to you isn't insurance fraud. 8*pd11604 See 1 through 8.
: Medical Debt Validation What is the purpose of "validation"? It is, is my opinion, to get proof that the debt is yours, and that the CA has a right to collect on it. There are some who believe that by requesting validation, and not getting the EXACT type and form that is technically required, that they can "sue" for violations. That is their privilege. However, when it comes to "validation" for medical services, you have constraints from HIPAA and State privacy laws that supercede the "technical" requirements of the FDCPA and the "Wolfman" letter. In this case, if there is any "fault" to be found, it is in the assumption by the HMO that IF the medical bill had not already been paid by the patient's parent, that she would use the insurance funds sent to her for that purpose. It is a VERY common procedure for an insurance company to send the payment to the patient instead of directly to the health care provider, as in many cases, the patient has PAID at the time of treatment, and the insurance company is reimbursing them. The reason for this is simple, the insurance companies TRUST their enrolled clent to pay the bill, and do NOT trust a Health Care Provider to inform them if they have been doubly paid.
: Medical Debt Validation WhyChat... Maybe insurance types other than HMO's commonly pay the consumer. The reason for using a HMO is so that the consumer doesn't have to do the advance payment, and wait for the reimbursement, and the other headaches of older insurance programs. Wollman *IS* directly related to medical debt validation, since that is the type of debt that Retrieval Masters Collection Bureau (RMCB) had asked them about, and it specifically states, from the Federal Trade Commission, that a simple statement, as was received here, basically containing only three lines. Patient : $0 Insurance : $1,100 Total : $1,100 Is not validation. It doesn't even come close to what RMCB was trying to consider as validation by being an itemization printed off of their own computer systems from what the provider had already provided them. The issue we come back to, is if the HMO had no way of contacting the provider to make the payment to them, how was the consumer if the consumer was not provided a bill for those services for more than two years? HIPPA *DOES* have provisions to allow them to provide to the consumer more information than a simple three line statement. That's why the provider should not have went to a CA in the first place, BEFORE they provided the consumer any type of bill.
: Medical Debt Validation In this case, if there is any "fault" to be found, it is in the assumption by the HMO that IF the medical bill had not already been paid by the patient's parent, that she would use the insurance funds sent to her for that purpose. It is a VERY common procedure for an insurance company to send the payment to the patient instead of directly to the health care provider, as in many cases, the patient has PAID at the time of treatment, and the insurance company is reimbursing them. The reason for this is simple, the insurance companies TRUST their enrolled clent to pay the bill, and do NOT trust a Health Care Provider to inform them if they have been doubly paid. I am sorry but that is NOT how an HMO works. I have had an HMO for quite some time and I have never and I repeat NEVER received payment for a provider. The provider is always paid directly. Most services from a provider other than the Primary Care Provider have to be referred and authorized ahead of time which was the case with my daughter. However, when it comes to "validation" for medical services, you have constraints from HIPAA and State privacy laws that supercede the "technical" requirements of the FDCPA and the "Wolfman" letter. HIPPA laws must not be too effective because the collection attorney's secretary explained to me in detail the services provided to my child. This was also detailed in the crappy printout statement that the collection office and collection attorney sent to me. I am not looking to "sue" anyone nor am I looking release myself from complete liability of this debt. I only look to make it as difficult as I can and possibly make the provider own up to some of their own office's mistakes (i.e., poor billing practices). And yes, there were mistakes, even the collection attorney's office was admitted such.
: Medical Debt Validation Then you need to find something that requires them to adhere to particular business practices and/or requires them to bill your insurance and/or requires them to bill you at all. Sassy
Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation Is this even on your reports, amd, or did you send a validation letter in response to a letter? Sassy
Re: Re: Medical Debt Validation Do a little searching on the term HMO; it may be informative. One of the major selling points with HMO's is that the DOCTORS do the claim forms; a 2 minute google search will lead you to information straight from the HMO's themselves on this issue. Usually its the big highlighted top item. Join us, and you don't have to worry about bills, or claim forms, everything is done for you by our providers, just pay the monthly premium, and the co-pay for the services that you use, and don't worry about the rest... It's not a service that they do out of the goodness of their hearts, because their staff doesn't have anything better to do. In their contracts with the HMO, it says this is how you process a claim, and you must process the claim this specific and certain way, in order to ensure that you get paid. If the provider somehow screwed up the claim forms that they are contractually obligated to complete in a timely manner, and in a specific way, *AND* they don't even think to let the consumer know personally, just send it to a collection agency, when the consumer has waited for more than two years to hear from A. DOCTOR. Why did I see the need to shout in the one post, because this went from a simple question, to character assasination, and frankly, I was getting hot under the collar by the tone that people who I respect GREATLY have taken on this issue. If they wouldn't have cashed the check which was made out to them, and the check became stale dated, they would still owe the $1,100 as you are claiming, because chances are getting their HMO to re-issue another check for this bill will be hard, if not impossible. But maybe what they should have done was left the check uncashed, sent the stale dated check to the provider, had the provider commit forgery to endorse the check made out in the name of A. CONSUMER, and then press criminal charges against A. DOCTOR for forgery. The irony is that the same people in this post who are gung-ho about there being nothing to sue for here, are the ones who think that the poster did something criminal by cashing a check made out to their name. The only way that something criminal would have occurred is if the check was made out to A. DOCTOR, and they cashed the check made out to A. DOCTOR.
