Miss Meany at it again

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Jenasea9, Aug 17, 2002.

  1. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    So I have heard nothing this week from my friend from "Yikes called from second letter" {sorry havnt learned how to link posts yet}

    What do you think about this next letter I plan on mailing on Monday?? Also I cant seem to find the statement to place on my letters so they cant submit them against me in court. I am sending him 1 print screen of him in my computer, 1 copy of his signature, 1 itemized bill for what I think he owes me since he considers that proper validation. I just dont want to be placed in a bad light (smarta#$) in court. Here's my third letter. Is it a good idea to also submit a copy of my small claims form (with copy printed on bottom of course)???

    Dear Mr. Horan:

    Again, I am formally requesting that you validate all tradeline notations that you have submitted to the three major credit reporting agencies by Collection Associates for me, Jennifer Searles, for account number 335540.

    I would like to thank you for you prompt response to the letter dated August 9th, 2002 with a call at 9 a.m. Saturday August 10th, 2002. Unfortunately at this time I am going to have to request that all communication be in written form since that conversation was so unproductive with childishness name calling (you stating several times I was being mean and unethical), false accusations (you stating I believed Bloomington Hospital was being unethical and that I was using a Credit Repair service), and harassment (threatening to counter sue for frivouslessness if I choose to enforce your infractions of the FDCPA and the FCRA).

    I am receipt of your correspondence postmarked August 6, 2002. The three items you sent to me do not count as validation and do not prove or show where I owed this debt as I stated in the phone call. Let me go further and explain why and how these do not meet the legal requirements as stated in the Wollman FTC opinion letter and further proved in the Spears vs Brennan. I have provided to you these documents for your convenience and I have also included my own â??debtâ? to you to prove my point.

    1. The first item I will address is a print screen shot of my information being in your computer system. The address is a combination of several of my former addresses. This may be the reason that I never received mail from you advising me of this debt and my rights. I pulled my report in December of 1999 before I purchased my car and paid the amount reporting as soon as I saw it. You will find included with this letter a Print Screen shot of you in my computer system. I am sorry that I could not tell your name on the signature card, as you never identified yourself when you called me.

    2. The second item I will address is my release form from Bloomington Hospital. Yes, this has my signature on it; and if you read what this signature is for, it denotes â??I hereby acknowledge and understand the instructions indicated aboveâ?. These instructions were how to take care of my sprained knew. During our phone conversation you said that was enough that it proved I was there. Sir, not once have I denied being there or not. I was there after I hurt my knee at the local ski resort. This signature has no relevance whether I owed this debt. You will find included with this letter a copy of your signature.

    3. The third and last item you sent as proof is a itemized list of services with the original creditorâ??s name rubber stamped at the top. You can not tell me why the items are so different. I went to have my knee looked at, and there is a urinalysis line on here. It shows on 9/22/98 â??Service not covered $00.â? It shows my insurance (I donâ??t know if that is Cigna or not as it is listed as â??Connecticut General Lifâ?) paying this bill eight months after service. No where on here does it show any payments made by me. Where is the deductible that must paid upon admission to the hospital? Also where is the payment I know I made to you? You will find enclosed with this letter an itemized list of violations you have incurred with this matter and what I think you owe me. The Wollman Letter addresses this issue precisely.

    If you do not cease reporting of the incorrect information, I will be forced to take further action. Please be advised that your blatant disregard and violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and my rights as a consumer have caused harm to me by causing the denial of credit as well as causing me to be charged higher interest rates and unfavorable loan terms.

    I assume that you cannot validate this debt; therefore, I am demanding that you cease any and all collection efforts associated with the above referenced account. You chose by doing business as a collection agency to maintain the highest possible records of accuracy and to maintain and collect valid debts. I will give you 5 days from receipt of this tracked letter to provide me proper validation of this debt or remove unvalidated information from my reports.

    Iâ??m sure you are aware of the consequences in violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act as well as the multiple violations your company is now responsible for.

    As per the FDCPA:

    § 813. Civil liability [15 U.S.C. 1692k]
    (a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --
    (1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;
    (2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow

    § 807, False or misleading representations [15 USC 1962e]
    (5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.
    (8) Communicating or threatening to communicate to any person credit information which is known or which should be known to be false, including the failure to communicate that a disputed debt is disputed.
    (11)The failure to disclose in the initial written communication with the consumer, and in addition, if the initial communication with the consumer is oral, in that initial oral communication, that the debt collector is attempting to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose, and the failure to disclose in subsequent communications that the communication is from a debt collector, except that this paragraph shall not apply to a formal pleading made in connection with a legal action.


    As per the FCRA:

    (to be continued...sorry so long)
     
  2. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    § 616. Civil liability for willful noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681n]
    (a) In general. Any person who willfully fails to comply with any requirement imposed under this title with respect to any consumer is liable to that consumer in an amount equal to the sum of
    (1) (A) any actual damages sustained by the consumer as a result of the failure or damages of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000

    § 617. Civil liability for negligent noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681o]
    (a) In general. Any person who is negligent in failing to comply with any requirement imposed under this title with respect to any consumer is liable to that consumer in an amount equal to the sum of
    (1) any actual damages sustained by the consumer as a result of the failure;
    (2) in the case of any successful action to enforce any liability under this section, the costs of the action together with reasonable attorney's fees as determined by the court.


    § 623. Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies [15 U.S.C. § 1681s-2]
    (a) Duty of furnishers of information to provide accurate information
    (2) Duty to correct and update information
    (3) Duty to provide notice of dispute.

    Your company has failed to send the legally required validation of this debt. In fact, what you sent to me shows inaccuracies of what you say and what you report. You have been notified that your actions are detrimental to me and that your company has violated (including but not limited to) the Consumer Credit Protection Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

    Your company knew or should have known that the actions taken against me and the information collected about me were inappropriate and damaging to me, failed to use reasonable care in the course of business and failed to use even minimal procedures to ensure that I was not harmed.

    Your company has communicated and is continuing to communicate incorrect and defamatory information to third parties including but not limited to, Equifax, Experian, and Trans Union. As a result of these blatantly reckless, wanton, and intentional acts, I have suffered and continue to suffer general and specific damages. I am also very upset at your company's intentional infliction of emotional distress, other diminishments of the quality of my life and refusal to follow the law.

    Please understand that I am extremely concerned about the consequences of the actions your company is having on my life. Please be advised that, if this matter is not resolved by the aforementioned date, I will take any and all necessary steps to protect my rights.

    If you wish to resolve this matter, this will be your last opportunity to do so. The following item must be deleted from my credit files with the three major credit reporting bureaus (Equifax, Experian, Trans Union) within 5 days from the date you signed for this letter unless proper validation is provided to me in writing (you may fax to 317-297-XXXX. I want proof of debt or via regular U.S. mail a statement stating it has been removed and will not reappear on my credit reports again. I will expect nothing less.

    Please be aware if these accounts are not deleted by August 28, 2002, I will be filing a formal complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, our state attorneyâ??s office and the Better Business Bureau and possibly Marion County Small claims court in the amount of $6000 (maximum allowed + fees). Also, note that section 1681s-2(b) of the Fair Credit Reporting Act creates a cause of action for a consumer against a furnisher of erroneous credit information (Nelson v. Chase Manhattan).

    For the purposes of 15 U.S.C. 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary.

    Thank you and I look forward to resolving this most expeditiously and amicably.

    Sincerely,
     
  3. Kiyi

    Kiyi Well-Known Member

    Ok, with my way of doing these things with CAs, CRAs, etc. I have kept all my letters less then one page and I never used statutes with stating the violations. Why are you doing all the work for them? Stop it and relax. Say, "You failed to show me a valid date yet called me, You broke the law." Don't show them where in the FCRA or FDCPA. Just tell them they broke the law, they already know anyways.

    Next. they don't read these letters when they are that long. I know I don't and I won't. I just scan it. look for errors, laugh, and send them a letter to stfu. Don't kill them with legalese cause it doesn't work fast or well. Just be abrupt, assertive and no holds barred. if they don't cooperate, serve them a civil summons and don't settle.
     
  4. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    Thank you...I do tend to ramble..

    So keep it short and sweet...keep the letter for my lawsuit and just redemand proper validation.

    Do I still send the copies of the wollman letter and the case? I know he baited me when he said that case wont hold up here...umm Let's see...that case was decided in Marion County....hummm I live in Marion County...Do I just state it and let him do the work!!??!! How much time do I give him?? 5 days is long enough correct?

    Also I think I lost my question of the phrase to place on the documents I send to prevent them from submitting in my ramblings.
     
  5. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Jen,

    I like your letter. But you can shorten it considerably. Kiyi's right, I wouldn't quote any law unless you're dealing with the CRA's, and even then it should be limited.

    At this point I would stop demanding validation and start demanding immediate deletion or be sued.
    The deadline is fine.

    BTW - Your phrase, do you mean:

    "For settlement purposes only"?

    As far as them not reading it. I can't agree. I assure you they read these very carefully.

    Here's one of my letters that got astonishingly rapid results.

    http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...325&highlight="methodist+hospital"#post220325
     
  6. jrjr35

    jrjr35 Well-Known Member

    I don't think you're mean.
     
  7. LKH

    LKH Well-Known Member

    I agree with taking out the statutes. They should know what they say and if they don't., too bad. Next, in your #2 I would remove any and all statements admitting you were in the hospital. Never admit anything to a ca.

    I also agree with the others about asking for validation. How many times have you already written/spoken to this idiot and asked for validation? Enough is enough. Send a filled out copy of your small claims lawsuit with it, but only if you are going to follow thru with it. If you give him 5 days or else, then file on day 6.
     
  8. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all.

    Butch...I love the word "diseased" to the letter to the hospital.

    Thank you JRJR as I was just quoting the collection agent when he called me.

    Thank you LKH and I do plan on following up on small claims court because in Marion County we can sue for up to $6000.

    Should I still include my "debt" proof to him with my copy of small claims court paperwork? Just remove all the law stuff? Also I already have the small claims paperwork...in the section where i state why I am sueing do I just state Violations or do I need to specify each and everyone of them??

    Thanks for all the help...I want to beat him at his own game so badly, being the deadbeat meany and all :)
     
  9. rblues

    rblues Well-Known Member

    Hey Butch! That was quite the stongly worded letter. I'm assuming you got your deletion?
     
  10. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    How is this version??

    I would like to thank you for you prompt response to the letter dated August 9th, 2002 with a call at 9 a.m. Saturday August 10th, 2002. Unfortunately at this time I am going to have to request that all communication be in written form since that conversation was so unproductive with childishness name calling (you stating several times I was being mean and unethical), false accusations (you stating I believed Bloomington Hospital was being unethical and that I was using a Credit Repair service), and harassment (threatening to counter sue for frivouslessness if I choose to enforce your infractions of the FDCPA and the FCRA).

    I am receipt of your correspondence postmarked August 6, 2002. The three items you sent to me do not count as validation and do not prove or show where I owed this debt as I stated in the phone call. Let me go further and explain why and how these do not meet the legal requirements as stated in the Wollman FTC opinion letter and further proved in the Spears vs Brennan. I have provided for your convenience my own â??debtâ? to you to prove my point.

    The first item I will address is a print screen shot of my information being in your computer system. The address is a combination of several of my former addresses. This may be the reason that I never received mail from you advising me of this debt and my rights. I pulled my report in December of 1999 before I purchased my car and paid the amount reporting as soon as I saw it. You will find included with this letter a Print Screen shot of you in my computer system. I am sorry that I could not tell your name on the signature card, as you never identified yourself or your company when you called me until after I inquired.

    The second item I will address is my release form from Bloomington Hospital. Yes, this has my signature on it; and if you read what this signature is for, it denotes â??I hereby acknowledge and understand the instructions indicated aboveâ?. These instructions were how to take care of my sprained knew. This signature has no relevance whether I owed this debt. You will find included with this letter a copy of your signature.

    The third and last item you sent as proof is an itemized list of services with the original creditorâ??s name rubber stamped at the top. It shows on 9/22/98 â??Service not covered $00.â? It shows an insurance paying this bill eight months after service. No where on here does it show any payments made by me. You will find enclosed with this letter an itemized list of violations you have incurred with this matter and what I think you owe me.

    I assume that you cannot validate this debt and that you are aware of the consequences in violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act as well as the multiple violations your company is now responsible for. Your company has failed to send the legally required validation of this debt. In fact, what you sent to me shows inaccuracies of what you say and what you report. You have been notified that your actions are detrimental to me and that your company has violated (including but not limited to) the Consumer Credit Protection Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

    If you wish to resolve this matter, this will be your last opportunity to do so. The following item must be deleted from my credit files with the credit reporting bureaus within 5 days from the date you signed for this letter. I want via regular U.S. mail proof of debt or a statement stating it has been removed and will not reappear on my credit reports again. I will expect nothing less.

    Please be aware if these accounts are not deleted by the latest date of August 28, 2002, I will be filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, our state attorneyâ??s office and the Better Business Bureau not to meantion the Marion County Small claims court in the amount of $6000 (maximum allowed with fees). Also, note that section 1681s-2(b) of the Fair Credit Reporting Act creates a cause of action for a consumer against a furnisher of erroneous credit information (Nelson v. Chase Manhattan).

    For the purposes of 15 U.S.C. 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary.

    Thank you and I look forward to resolving this most expeditiously and amicably.
     
  11. Kiyi

    Kiyi Well-Known Member

    NEVER send your signature. Never explain anything about it. Send this.

    Dear asswipes,

    I dont' owe you a thing, you have no proof, Delete your crap debt from my credit reports in 5 days or I will issue a civil suit in the amount of 4500 in my general district court on the 6th day. If you feel to compel yourself to ignore this, then I will love to see you eye to eye in front of the Honorable Judge so and so.

    Thank You,

    your name.

    Now all that information you have above this post. Keep that for the Judge on the day you collect from them. You are trying to match wits with words. You don't need to do that until you take them to court.
     
  12. flush

    flush Well-Known Member

    your "condensed" letter is still 3 pages or so. put yourself in the shoes of the person who is reading this. they are lost by the 2nd paragraph, simple words and short sentences.

    you have 3 issues, make it a bulleted list, rather than lengthy paragraphs.

    Instead of continuously quoting paragraphs of law and whatever USC code, just keep it simple with a sentence about taking measures to resolve this by resorting to legal avenues.
     
  13. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Oh yes. 2 of them were gone next day. On the 3rd, I just got a letter from the CA that says:

    "The OC asked us to notify you that this account was placed in error. It will not affect your credit rating." So I assume it will be deleted very soon.

    I think you want to strike a happy medium with your letters. You're actually trying to accomplish 2 things.

    1) You want to show them that you're not playing around and that you know what you're diong

    2) You want to get this settled without actually having to go to court

    If your letter is too long you appear to be rambling and not succinct. If you really do know what you're diong your letter is brutally to the point and non rambling. On the other hand if it's too short it fails to convince the CA that they are better off just making you go away.

    I do like Kiyi's BLUNT style but her example above does need some elaboration. Not withstanding the fact that she too, gets good results. Flush's idea is good. Bullet your violations.

    BTW - in your actual suit all you need is: "For numerous violations of the FCRA and FDCPA".

    That's it.

    EDIT> One other thing that I think carried hefty weight. I took the time to find out who their registered agent for service is and copied this letter to them too. I had it at the top of the letter and said: "copy to:"

    If I were a hospital admin. I wouldn't mess with someone who even knows what a Registered Agent is". lol
     
  14. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    Thank you everyone....here is the third attempt (third time is a charm :) )

    RE: Account# 335540 via CCRR 70993400001693647404

    Dear Mr. Horan:

    I would like to thank you for you prompt response to the letter dated August 9th, 2002 with a call at 9 a.m. Saturday August 10th, 2002. Unfortunately at this time I am going to have to request that all communication be in written form since that conversation was so unproductive with childishness name calling (you stating several times I was being mean and unethical), false accusations (you stating I believed Bloomington Hospital was being unethical and that I was using a Credit Repair service), and harassment (threatening to counter sue for frivouslessness if I choose to enforce your infractions of the FDCPA and the FCRA).

    I am receipt of your correspondence postmarked August 6, 2002. The three items you sent to me do not count as validation and do not prove or show where I owed this debt as I stated in the phone call. Please refer to the FTC Wolman opinion Letter and the Spears v Brennan Case Law.

    I assume that you cannot validate this debt and that you are aware of the consequences in violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act as well as the multiple violations your company is now responsible for. Your company has failed to send the legally required validation of this debt. In fact, what you sent to me shows inaccuracies of what you say and what you report. You have been notified that your actions are detrimental to me and that your company has violated (including but not limited to) the Consumer Credit Protection Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

    If you wish to resolve this matter, this will be your last opportunity to do so. The following item must be deleted from my credit files with the credit reporting bureaus within 5 days from the date you signed for this letter. I want via regular U.S. mail proof of debt or a statement stating it has been removed and will not reappear on my credit reports again. I will expect nothing less.

    Please be aware if these accounts are not deleted by the latest date of August 28, 2002, I will be filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, our state attorneyâ??s office and the Better Business Bureau not to mention the Marion County Small claims court in the amount of $6000 (maximum allowed with fees). Also, note that section 1681s-2(b) of the Fair Credit Reporting Act creates a cause of action for a consumer against a furnisher of erroneous credit information (Nelson v. Chase Manhattan).

    For the purposes of 15 U.S.C. 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary.

    Thank you and I look forward to resolving this most expeditiously and amicably.
    Sincerely,
    enclosure copy of suit
     
  15. Butch

    Butch Well-Known Member

    Much better.

    :)
     
  16. Jenasea9

    Jenasea9 Well-Known Member

    Thank ya sending tomorrow

    Also crossing my fingers and finally starting on the seven medical collections from Mutual....scared about that one!!!
     
  17. Kiyi

    Kiyi Well-Known Member

    Its better, and I swear I am not harrassing you, but everything you stated above can be said in 3 sentences.

    Dear Putzes,

    Your alleged validation is not correct, and you are harrassing me to pay something that I do not owe. What you are doing is against the law. I am going to be filing a civil lawsuit against you in 5 days if these items are not removed from my credit report.

    Sincerely,

    J
     
  18. bigmon

    bigmon Well-Known Member

    Janasea

    Great research. I agree that it's too long for the bozo your sending it too.

    Save it for the judge. He will be impressed more with you than the bozo.

    Good Luck.
     

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