It seems like there is some bad blood between the people here and over there at YM. Specifically, the credit problems board over at YM. What gives, why can't we all just get along?
That's a great question. I don't know if I can answer it completely, but I can give some thoughts on it. Most credit problems are lifestyle issues. People get bad credit by handling their money badly, by living beyond their means and not taking personal responsibility for their problems. At MSN Money, the prevailing wisdom is that if you have these credit problems, you need to change the lifestyle that leads to the problem. If you don't have the money to pay the bills, then you need to get more money and reduce the expenses. Here, the thrust is to change what the credit report says with no comment on the lifestyle issues that created the problem to begin with. These are very different points of view. I think there is value in both boards. A credit report is just a reflection of how you've handled your money. The problem is that somethimes it's not an accurate reflection. If you have information on your credit report that is damaging and not true, then the information found here can be invaluable. On the other hand, if the information on the credit report is true, then chances are that changing the information won't address the real problem. You can change the report, but it will become bad again if the lifestyle issues that led to bad credit are not changed. Drawing a smiley face on your mirror doesn't make you happy.
That makes no sense to me. This board should know that a lifestyle change is required to quash bad credit. Thats not my opinion, but a realistic fact proven by people who have done it. I think most (obviously not all, see Dentist board today) understand that a lifestyle change is needed if you have bad credit. (add to that an attitude change in most people) Example: a fat guy losing weight can't simply get a liposuction and continue to eat Mcdonalds. A few observations I have about this whole CN/YM/Credit boards thing: If you declare BK, it's pretty much assumed that you know you need to change something. Most people I know who have done the BK thing HAVE changed for the most part and are MUCH better managers of their money and credit. Having COLLECTIONS are another story. I think it's directly realated to failure to budget and communicate with lenders/creditors. It's also a direct result of a mentality people have when dealing with debt. Either they flat out refuse to pay what they owe, or they are too embarrased or scared to pay it. In either situation, there's an easy out, you just have to make the choice to bite the bullet and resolve it. Thinking that "it will go away" won't help it. Budgeting. Having a solid budget and STICKING TO IT is a sure fire way to avoid most collections and late pays. Income: Fact is this, the more income, the less debt you need to incur, and the more money you keep. Not saying people with more income have less debt, but someone making 25K a year is likely to borrow more than someone making 50K a year, thus paying more interest and losing what little money they have left.. Not saying the "pay your bills" mentality works for everyone, but if you get a better job, wisely budget, and do your best not to have a bad attitude, your credit problems tend to resolve themselves. I don't care if someone has had a collection or a BK or a repo or a hemmeroid. I do think that telling the patrons of all of our popular credit/money boards that they need a lifestyle change in ADDITION to the solutions they request would be a step in the right direction. I'm also interested in the "fail" rate of people who come here (and there) for advice. I want to know if, when they have a derog removed, another pops up. I'd like to know if they have further medical bills or yet another cell phone collections, do they do it again. Do they rack up their credit rating only to fail to pay a bill and have to start over. This is not a troll, just something to think about.
Well, I CAN answer it completely, and in fact it won't take very long. For whatever reason those from MSN REFUSE to learn the right way to do stuff. BTW - there ARE CN members who are the same way, don't get me wrong. No matter how many people prove them wrong they're still NEVER wrong, regardless of the overwhelming proof. CN has a certain way things need to be done. It's the most successful way, (although admittedly not always perfect). We rarely feel inclined to waste our time with someone who refuses to learn. There has been numerous MSN members who've come here, learned, and then went back to MSN to try and teach them. Only to then be laughed off the board. Why bother? See?
Amazing, you've been one week? Or is two? And you have it all figured out. I would suggest you read the 1106 pages of posts here to see what this board is truly about. We talk almost daily about lifestyle changes. Many people that are here made their mistakes when they were young and dumb, and now want to fix their problems and begin to handle money in a sound fashion. Others that are here have suffered some sort of financial crisis, and are trying to get help/advice how to minimize the damage, and get back on the right track. Have you read many of the suggestions on how to clear up debt? Its not only about getting it off your report. Its about getting it paid. Day in and day out, we help people plan a course of action to do just that. Have you read the post from Willdogs today? With this board's help he has paid off several debts and is now on the right track. You should really read some of the success stories, and the thank yous this board has received from people. Most will go on to say they NOW understand how credit works, and they vow not to get back in the same position. You should also take a look at the posts, when it is obvious someone is asking for help, but doing nothing to help themselves i.e. continuing similar patterns - they get flamed. I hope and pray for you that you never suffer some of the horror stories that have come through this board. Lengthy loss of jobs due to downturns in the economy; a devastating car wreck where the other driver had no insurance; a long term illness of a child that prevents you from working because you have no one to take care of that child; a premature baby that requires hundreds or thousands of dollars just to survive; a debilitating illness of your own; or anything else for that matter that sucks your life savings dry and continues sucking when there is nothing left. Oh, if we could all live in the perfect world that you do. But then, this board wouldn't be here.
I hope and pray for you that you never suffer some of the horror stories that have come through this board. Lengthy loss of jobs due to downturns in the economy; a devastating car wreck where the other driver had no insurance; a long term illness of a child that prevents you from working because you have no one to take care of that child; a premature baby that requires hundreds or thousands of dollars just to survive; a debilitating illness of your own; or anything else for that matter that sucks your life savings dry and continues sucking when there is nothing left. -------------------- This isn't meant in a bad way, but if they had good jobs with good insurance and a good budget with an emergency fund of a few months expenses, then would they have been in the situation? Obviously, the downfall from the job loss isn't anyone's fault aside from the employee. You always need an emergency fund. The baby is another story, but hostpitals usually quash most of the fees, trust me, I've been in that situation. [edit]
jlynn- Your post is well thought out and very sincere. I applaud your attention to detail. I think the original poster probably had not gone through the thousands of posts, but it does not diminish a good point. We cannot always sort through thousands of posts when making changes. It can be overwhelming sorting through the wealth of information here. I have wondered about the possibility of "categories" for individuals to post to. It might help to winnow the information and reduce some of the duplication. Any thoughts?
In my case, I was ready to make the lifestyle change to get my finances back on track, but I didn't want to pay the seven year penalty after I'd done so. I was 34 years old when I started to fix my credit. The prospect of not being able to rent a car or buy a house or pick up a dinner check or have a checking account or even answer the phone in the evening until I was 41 was unthinkable. Let's face it, a lot of people here are instant-gratification types. That's probably why we all got into our credit messes to begin with. So you're going to tell me I have to change my lifestyle right now and wait seven years for the payoff? Not a chance. With the Creditnet way of doing things I changed my lifestyle AND got my credit restored in one-seventh of the time. Was that wrong? I don't see how. I did nothing but make a few phone calls, write a few letters and send a few emails. If anyone thinks our way of doing things is wrong, then they shouldn't follow our path. There is a definite culture here and we like it that way.
And if wishes were horses then beggars would ride too now wouldn't they? Of course if they had good jobs and if they had good insurance and if they had a good budget and if they had an emergency fund of at least $25,000 cash. If they had that they wouldn't need any credit. Get real.
Bill, Don't be a dick. Millions of people live on 30-50K a year and the only credit they use is for a mortgage. Thats what I do. I pay cash for things with the money I save in interest by not using credit. I posted in good faith. Don't start any fights.
Mycroft , I think it's somewhat of an insult to say that people come here to change their credit report, and not their ways. On reading this board, have you read of anyone here who fixed their credit, and went on being irresponsible with their credit matters? The mere fact that people come here to get help fixing the problem is a first step to realizing good credit is paramount, and once they've attained it, they would do everything they could to keep it that way. We're all adults aren't we? I myself came here feeling I'll have to be paying high rates forever. I make a very good income, but I could never have anything to show for it at the end of the month because of extremely high rates. Having attained good credit, I save literally thousands in financing costs, and you're insinuating that people like me aren't mature enough to want to keep it this way? See, the problem I've seen with MSN is that, MSN people seem to be saying if there's something bad on your credit, it's your fault, nothing can be done about it.. Juststart paying your bills on time, wait 7 years and it'll fall off. I just always feel sorry for the newbies there who're desperate to fix their credit like I was when I first came here.
Re: Re: MSN Your money boards That's the $64,000 question. I suspect we don't know the majority of the failures because for the most part those people don't stick around and post their experiences. There is someone who comes to mind here who has been brave enough to post about their bad-to-good-to-bad credit story and as painful as this must be for that person, it's a good warning to everyone else. It's too bad we can't find a way to study the short and long term results of our philosophy.
On top of that no message board can be a Jack of all trades type of board. If that is what goes on then it soon degenerates into just a chit-chat board and nobody learns anything. Any messages that did contain valuable and useful information would soon be gone never to be found again. That's what is good about blogs and ezines and autoresponders and websites. Information that is valuable can be stored on them for years on end and not get lost. The newest thing to hit the net are the blogs. They really aren't new either. I've been involved in blogs since their inception and reserved mine about 2 years ago but never did anything about it. That's because they were just in their infancy and needed a ton of developmental work on them before they could become viable tools. Now the basic software development is done and the larger companies and state governmentsare starting to pick up on them and put them to work. They can greatly reduce training time and costs and help keep projects on schedule. Blogs can also be used to keep development team members on the same track and make the process much smoother. They can also be extremely helpful in customer support areas by reducing the amount of live tech support time needed to get customer service problems handled quickly and with less effort. Companies are also turning to them for search engine placement enhancement as well as for marketing of services and products. Message boards are great too but valuable information gets lost in the maze very quickly never to be seen again and blogs can help preserve them for future use. But having a wide range of interests and topics only contributes to the shortcomings of the message boards. I think we are much better off with a narrower focus.
Re: Re: MSN Your money boards I'd be willing to bet that the regression rate is pretty hefty. I've got quite a few reasons for believing that. I've seen far too many people who just aren't good planners. So they fall right back into the same old rut all over again and again and again. I know that sounds pretty harsh but my experience is that such is the case. They aren't bad people, they don't intend to do that but that's just the way they are. How many times have we seen women get into a bad marriage because they hung around bars and dance halls and ran into some guy who married them and beat the living daylights out of them and so they divorced and went right back to the bars to do it all over again? And how many have we ever seen that realized what they were doing and went out and took martial arts classes so they could defend themselves successfully? (LOL) I guess that's about what I do is teach the martial arts of dealing with abusive debt collectors. (LOL) Never thought of it that way until just writing this message.. Imagine that! Creditwrenchâ?¢ the debtor's Kung Fu. (LOL)
Re: Re: MSN Your money boards I guess that's about what I do is teach the martial arts of dealing with abusive debt collectors. *********************** Crouching credit bureau, hidden BBauer. I like that! lol
Re: Re: MSN Your money boards I guess I'm partially responsible for the problem. I've been a regular poster over at your money also known as lrssms. It has always been a problem with the attitudes of a few people over there. One particular is Shot Caller - he works for a collection agency and does nothing but belittle anyone in debt. He lacks objectivity. I've been posting over there for weeks for new commers to come to this board for CR advice and the chitchat site for bk info. For example, a married 34 year couple in 30k of debt, I believe should consider bk. This person is over 1/2 way to retirement and should be considering spending more time with his/her family and saving for retirement. The less the person saves now, the more I'll pay in taxes later. Better the banks to take a loss than the government to incur more debt with an aging population. The last thing that couple should do is have 2-3 jobs and miss out on their children or be forced to put thier children in day-care. Especially since it will take 12+ years to payoff that kind of debt. Over at YM this solicits reponses of irresponsible, jerk, loser etc.... I noticed over at ym complaints about this site and how they are being kick-off. I believe most of the "regulars" over at money are collectors, mortgage companies, or bank representives giving out poor information. Sorry, but I will continue to recommend newcomers to this site instead.
Re: Re: MSN Your money boards One particular is Shot Caller - he works for a collection agency and does nothing but belittle anyone in debt. He lacks objectivity. -------------- He doesn't WORK for a collection agency, he IS a collection agency. The guy owns a payday loan business, he's legit and 99% of the time right on.
