I've gotten myself into a bit of a pickle, and now the situation is threatening my credit, so I thought I would ask for some advice. I'm pretty sure I'm in good shape as far as my rights, but I'd like some input before I send my next letter. Last March, I went to a "Wedding Show", and signed up to win a bunch of prizes from different vendors at the the show. One of the vendors was Associated Consultants out of Minneapolis, MN. (Their main office is in Ft. Lauderdale, FL). My fiance and I received a call in April telling us that if we attended a two hour sales show, we would get a four day, three night all-inclusive package to the Bahamas (no strings). I was interested in purchasing a set of china anyway, so we went. Somehow (I'm a pushover, I admit it) we were convinced to buy a $2300 set of cookware, china, crystal, flatware. We applied for the "EZ Pay Credit Plan" 20% down and monthly payments for 18 months. The 20% down worked out to be $464, and at the time we could only pay $264. It was agreed that we would pay the additional $200 in two weeks, and our products would be shipped to us. At this point, the sales rep and his assistant started rushing the process. We signed the authorization for a credit check, and signed the order form to verify exactly which china, crystal, and flatware style we wanted. Just as we thought everything was signed, the sales rep's assistant said, "Oh, I almost forgot, since we gave you such a deep discount and special offers, all sales are final. Can you guys initial here?" She wrote a little "all sales final" blurb (I think on the back of the document) and we initialed it. Well, of course, the next day we thought "What the heck did we just buy $2300 in cookware for?" We thought we were stuck. We didn't really want the stuff, but since we were told all sales final, we didn't know what to do. We figured if we didn't send them the additional $200 to complete the downpayment, they would just leave us alone. We were wrong!!!! Two days after the additional $200 was due, the harassing phone calls and letters started. They always threw in that we "signed a LEGAL CONTRACT" and owed them the money. I tried to just ignore them, hoping they'd go away. After all, they had our $264, and we didn't have anything. (BTW, we were sent a letter notifying us that we didn't qualify for credit, and that we would have to be put on the layaway payment plan, where we would have to pay 12 consecutive months before we received anything) They didn't go away, so I started doing a little research on getting out of contracts. Well I came across the Cooling Off rule on the FTC website. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buying/cooling.htm This seemed to perfectly fit my situation, because we were never told of our right to cancel. We were actually told that "this sale is final." I wrote a letter to Associated Consultants explaining that we didn't want their product and that since they didn't explain that we had the right to cancel within three days, they broke the Cooling Off Rule, thus the contract we signed was rescindable. I also asked that they refund the $264 we made as downpayment, and that any communication must be made by letter. I sent this letter regular mail (because I didn't know any better). Well, a month went by, and no word from Associated Consultants. Reading posts on this website gave me the guts to write another letter (sent CRRR this time!) letting them know that according the FTC, they had 10 days to refund my deposit. I included a copy of the original letter, and threatened to file a complaint with the FTC and BBB. I received a letter from Associated Consultants (hereforth to be called Ass Cons) that basically said, "Go ahead, write a letter to the FTC, and include a copy of the contract that explains the Buyers Right to Cancel." They tossed in the LEGAL CONTRACT, you owe us money, send it now before you suffer credit problems, and legal action. Needless to say, I was burning, cussing, sputtering, ENRAGED!!! They are daring me! Part of the Cooling Off Rule, if read carefully, is that Ass Cons was obligated to orally explain the Cancellation policy. They didn't! Also, the copy of the contract that they sent me doesn't include the handwritten "All Sales Final" with our initials. Our copy doesn't have it either, because it was on written on the back the sales agreement, so it didn't carbon copy. I plan to file a complaint with the FTC, but does anyone have any suggestions on how I should word my next letter????? Thanks for reading all of this!! Charity
Hi Charity, Now THAT'S how to explain a situation. It get's tiring to see some posters who's thread consists of "I sent my first letter now what do I do". LOL You're right on with your rights. There's also what's called the Federal Mail Order Rule, which covers products delivered via mail, which I assume is how they were planning to ship. Hang on and some comments will come. It takes a little while on Mondays.
Federal Mail Order Rule I looked it up, and it seems to apply in a roundabout way. In the fine print on our credit authorization, it says that if don't qualify for the credit plan, we agree to the layaway plan. So I think they had our permission to delay the shipment??
These people must be scum! You should go ahead and file complaints with the FTC, AG, and the BBB, even if you get the matter resolved. They should know what kind of scam they have going on. Does your contract say what the terms of layaway are? Most layaway plans allow you to back out of them anyway. I thought that they had to have the right to rescend in the contract, not orally. Oral doesn't do the job. They could say that they told you all kinds of things. If you went to court, and I'm sure there are other people on this board that know better than me, the judge would use written documentation to determine a case. Your word is no better than theirs. Although, I believe you! This sounds like such a scam operation.
Many states have laws regarding cancellation of these types of products. For example in my state if a salesperson sells me something at my house I have 72 hours (3 days) to cancel whatever I bought (security systems usually). Doesn't matter what the contract says. They probably do the "sales final" on everybody, including those who pay in full.
Therein lies the pickle of the problem. On the back of my contract was written the Buyer Right to Cancel (3 days). But we were never told that we could cancel, we were misled to believe that we couldn't because we were told (and initialed) an all sales final amendment that was handwritten on the contract. I didn't send a letter notifying them that I wanted to cancel until August (over 4 months later), because I didn't think I COULD cancel. After reading up on Cooling Off. I found out that the cancellation timeframe could be extended if I was never notified verbally, and written that I had the RIGHT to cancel. I'm pretty sure I have solid standing with my rights. I'm a little concerned how I can prove that they didn't orally explain the cancellation policy and prove that we signed an "all sales final" amendment if the amendment didn't carbon on our copy of the contract. What really ticks me is that Ass Cons sent me a copy of the sales agreement (front and back) and the amendment with our initials doesn't appear on the copy. I was wondering if I should include a request for copies of the originals of anything we signed that evening that has our signatures or initials (so I could prove we were told "all sales final"). I just really want to blast them with my next letter, and I was hoping someone might feel a little creative and give me some potent suggestions. In the mean time, I'm working on a draft that I will post when I complete it. I wonder if there are any other damages I can get other than my deposit if I take them to small claims??? Am I getting greedy, or do I just want to nail them?? Probably a little of both.
We got the certificate for the trip. We would have gotten it whether we had agreed to buy anything or not. It was just a voucher through Spirit Travel. We sent the $50 refundable deposit in last month and haven't received the registration certificate to select the dates yet. We probably got schnookered on that deal too. I'm planning to call Spirit Travel (also out of Ft. Lauderdale, FL) to see what the deal is. I checked them out on BBB and they have a few complaints, but only about people not being able to get the dates they request. This whole thing is just a big mess, but I determined to do something about it. I've even thought about contacting the businesses that put on the Wedding Shows (where Ass Cons get most of their client info) and complaining.
How did you give them the 264? A check or credit card? If by credit card... dispute the charge now. If by check, ask the bank if you can stop payment (I don't know if they can.. but it's worth a shot). I vaguely remember hearing you can stop payment for up to 6 mos... but I'm not certain... Next... I'd start writing letters... 1. FTC Please file a complaint! 2. Call your state's atty general and ask who handles this... sometimes they can get your money back 3. BBB (won't really do anything...but it could help warn people in the future). file a complaint 4. You have any good local investigative reporters around? sick them on this company.. scum... 5. Call the local detectives and see if this qualifies as fraud. If it does... perhaps your local police can file a report and look into it... I know I know.. it's civil... but if this company is going around conning people they likely are breaking criminal laws too... Then... I'd send the company a formal demand letter for your deposit back stating the violations they did and an intent to sue them... just to start the ball rolling... and on the upside... you've learned a good lesson. You got the hard sell.. and almost everyone has regrets the next day... I also wonder if you have the right to cancel since you didn't get approved.. honestly.... that really sounds like fraud (you're getting nothing for a year even if you did choose to pay it)... that's not what you agreed to... what does the contract say if you're not approved for credit??? anything? I am wondering if anyone gets approved? if not... collect payments for a while... take deposits... skip town.. deliver little or nothing...
as for the next letter... I'd start it with the facts that you were not orally given the info regarding the cancellation period.. in fact... quite the contrary (they wrote all sales final) on the contract... and that even though you've notified them verbally of cancellation... here's the written request for cancellation... a refund of your deposit in full... etc. you need that in writing and sent cert rr to protect the idea that you did send notice of cancellation to them at some point (better late than never)... don't give too much detail.. just that they didn't tell you of the right to cancel within 3 days.. you wanted to cancel the day after meeting them... you've told them verbally you cancel and want your money back... and now here it is in writing as well...
I've done a little more research. This company is a member of the BBB and has been in business since 1974 with no complaints. I never told them that I wanted to cancel verbally. I sent letters, and the last one was CRRR, so at least I have that base covered. I am kind of conflicted on my rights,though, because on some sites the Cooling Off Rule stipulates that the company is obligated to verbally notify of my right to cancel and some sites don't. I emailed an inquiry to the BBB to find out the rule for Minnesota. I've searched but can't find a site for anything Minnesota specific. If anyone can help me find that info, I'd sure appreciate it! I'll contact my bank about possibly issuing a stop payment. Also, in the fine print on the sales agreement, it says that if we aren't approved for the credit plan, we agree to the layaway plan. I've definitely learned the hard way that I'm not signing squat until I read every line, front and BACK, of every page! Screw 'em if they think I'm taking too long!
Those SLEAZY, SLIMY.... I've been reading more of the Contract. Right above where we sign, is "I (we) have read this purchase agreement and hereby acknowledge receipt of a fully completed copy and notices of cancellation." Also on the contract, there is a place for them to fill in "THIRD BUSINESS DAY FOLLOWING DATE OF ORDER". Which of course they didn't. I'm starting to feel like I'm on shakier ground than I once thought. I wish I had that handwritten "All Sales Final" amendment on our copy!!!! Do you think I can request copies of all original documents with our signatures and initials??
So...they're members of the BBB. Have you ever been to the ripoffreport website? They have some reports on the BBB that make them out to be nothing but paid stooges for businesses. In fact you might do a search on this company and see if anyone else has complained about them. www.ripoffreport.com
1 - Did the "representative" at the show have the Legal and Corporate capacity to mark a Legal and Binding Contract "All Sales Final". (I don't think a corp. lawyer or judge would think much of a handwritten addendum on the Back of a contract) 2 - Could you show, in court, the contract was signed under duress or coercion? 3 - My guess is that any jury (and probably some judges) would look at the "if you don't qualfiy for credit, you wait 12 months for the product" as a non-consumer-friendly, if not un-enforceable, contract. SUE SUE SUE !!! (see below) 4 - Tell your friends in the media so that nobody else gets suckered by these monkey boys !!!! (If you don't have any friends in the media, make some quick !!!)
Gawd you are going to hate me, but I don't agree with anyone who's posted. Unfortunately, after three days without cancelling, you are basically out of luck. The contract is binding and it sure sounds to me like they nailed down every loop hole in there. They got your agreement to the layaway...that you read the contract and agreed...and that you had three days to rescind. Not sure how you can get out of this one...unless you want to bluff them by filing a lawsuit which could potentially cost them money that they might be willing to just quietly go away rather than spend money to defend it. On the other hand...that could backfire and you could end up paying their attorney fees on top of them obtaining a judgment for the amount of the contract. I sure hope I'm wrong about all this. I'm sure its a sickening feeling. L
At the AG's website, it says there are NO buyer's remorse provisions for purchases made at their place of business. Buyer's remorse alone, whether because of sales pressure by the seller or a change of mind by the consumer, does not provide sufficient legal grounds for cancellation of the sales contract. I was thinking of deceptive business practices since your credit was rejected and you were converted to layway. However, it reads like they covered that in the contract as well. :-( Sassy
Hate to say this, but it looks like you are S.O.L. You might want to try negotiating with them (ie. "keep the deposit, just cancel the contract") But they have no real reason to do so. Just be thankful it wasn't a house or car! If you have the money to pay them then do so, this could afect your credit if you don't pay.... and every time you look at that china you'll remember to read the entire contract line by line and then ask your attorney to read it and then think about it for a week or two..... sorry
You could try this... tell them you can't find your copy of the contract and ask them to fax you a copy of theirs...so you can read it and decide to pay them or not... try it... or if it's convenient.. go down there and just ask for a copy of the contract... tell them you've lost yours... maybe even act nice?? the person you talk with may not even know you are trying to cancel... anyway... I'd do my best to get a copy of THEIR contract... see if they do that and if their copy has the "all sales final" on it... that might give you proof they tried to make you think you didn't have 3 days... and if it's from their fax machine it's more damning evidence... I do now agree more with Whyspers that it's a nasty contract if they also cover the contingency of no credit approval... and that perhaps with this added info you may be stuck... unless you want to chance it... perhaps that really is their intent... to not approve you.. to get your payments way in advance (talk about using time value of money)... how many people are "approved" vs put on layaway... I really am wondering about this... I do think that fundamentally you got had. They tried to make you think that you didn't have 3 days to cancel... and you did. You wanted to cancel the next day but thought you couldn't b/c of the "all sales final" issue. I'm trying to remember.. if a contract is entered into with an intent to defraud... is that a reason that then makes a valid contract voidable? If I were on a jury.. and you could show me a copy of something with "all sales final" on it.. then I'd say that the company was definitely trying to pull one over on you... but boy are they smart to not put it on your copy... then all it does is make you think you don't have 3 days...so you don't send the cancellation letter in a timely manner...and thus forfeit the 3 days option... of course... if they refuse to show you their copy of the contract (did you sign 2 distinct copies???) then they don't have a binding contract if they can or won't ever produce their copy b/c it has the "all sales final" on it... they sound smart and so they may not be willing to produce their copy... which means they also may be hesitant to bring their copy to court b/c it would have the "all sales final" on it... no contract... no agreement...so this might cut both ways... if you can put a stop payment on the check.. then you've got your money back less the stop payment fee... well... you could send them a validation request and/or a cease and desist...meaning they'd have to sue you for the money..and they just might.. and if they show up in court with no contract (it'd have to be in writing or it violates the UCC of needing to be in writing for over 500)... you could use the statute of frauds defense... and just basically say "prove a contract"... unless they use white out... well...their copy would say "all sales final" I wonder if they used disappearing ink when they wrote the "all sales final" on their copy... and I'm only half kidding here... anyway.. it sounds like they may have hard core collections practices b/c their sales are hard core... so you may well have a good fight on your hands regardless of what you do... have you ever seen the movie Glengarry Glen Ross ? watch it... trust me. You see the same type of trick where a company is trying to get out of the 3 day cancellation issue as well.... trying to trick the consumer in thinking he's got more time than he really does... and thus make him miss the 3 days... it's an interesting movie... anyway... I do still think you have a fundamental element of fraud here... and b/c of that the contract may be voidable... and I really would post on BBB, FTC etc... b/c using that trick to get out of the 3 days likely is illegal.. even if you're stuck paying the contract (if you can't get a copy showing the "all sales final" on it)... and I still would find an investigative reporter...even more so if you do get stuck paying it.. warn other people about these tactics. but first... see if you can get a copy of their contract b/f doing anything else.. "all sales final" is the key... You have a witness? someone who went with you? how about other people who are happy with the deal but also heard and saw the "all sales final" deal... that might also work to support your case of the company intending to defraud you out of the 3 day cancellation right I've seen a lot and this one chills my blood... but perhaps if you're a very squeaky wheel... you can either get your money back or void this contract... good luck
A quick google search on contracts: Void and Voidable Contracts Contracts can be either void or voidable. A void contract imposes no legal rights or obligations upon either party and is not enforceable by a court. It is, in effect, no contract at all. A voidable contract is a legally enforceable agreement, but it may be treated as never having been binding on a party who was suffering from some legal disability or was a victim of fraud at the time of its execution. Undue Influence A contract or gift may be set aside under the equitable doctrine of undue influence. There are two distinct situations where the doctrine is applied : 1) where a special relationship of confidence exists and one party has abused his position of trust and confidence acting for his own interests. 2) where one exerts unfair mental pressure over another. Cases : Alcard v Skinner 1887, Williams v Bayley 1866, Lloyds Bank v Bundy 1975, National Westminster Bank plc v Morgan 1985 and George Michael case 1994 http://www.bigwig.net/sljohn/Contract.html http://www.wld.com/conbus/weal/wcontra1.htm
marie, As I read this and the link posted above from the FTC on the 3 day cooling off, she's not entitled to 3 day cancellation -- she went to their place of business. Was that not their place of business? What am I missing? Sassy
