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Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by tothetop!, Jul 5, 2007.
http://linkspiders.com/laws411/laws411 page/laws411ne credit file.htm
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They're referencing a EIN number or Employment Identification Number. Doing so for the purpose of establishing another credit file is illegal for them and a bad idea for you unless you have a legitimate business. Even still, it will do little for you because virtually all creditors check the personal credit histories of sole proprietors and officers of small LLC's & Inc.'s.
Here is the facts
The one on the top called legalcredit is a scam they instruct you to change details about your self to mislead creditors in an attempt to generate a unique persons credit file what they do not tell you is is that it catches up with you very quickly after you have paid them, their instruction is also illegal and is called file segregation.
The one below which is laws411 shows the correct way to use the number I found no illegal instruction in their program nor was their any hint to mislead creditors by obtaining a new credit file and no hint of file segregation.
The use of a second number and obtaining a number is legal in itself but like anything if you use it to mislead then it becomes illegal, example obtaining a checking account and check book from a bank is legal but if you use the check book to bounce checks after you obtain goods then that is illegal.
Solution obtain a number and use it correctly.
Re: New legal 9 digit number??? (YES THIS IS LEGAL)
I first want to introduce myself. My name is Rick Crosby founder of LegalCredit.com and it bothers me that so many people throw the word SCAM around just to try to get search engine visitors click on the URL that they are trying to promote in these posts. If you understand internet marketing then you understand why people post comments like this.
We need to set the record straight for all of these guys trying to promote their site and using my website name to gain publicity.
1. CREATING A NEW CREDIT FILE FOR BUSINESS PURPOSES IS LEGAL
2. KNOWING YOUR LEGAL CREDIT AND CONSUMER RIGHTS IS LEGAL
3. WRITING CREDIT EDUCATION BOOKS IS LEGAL
I have a very strong passion in helping who struggle with bad credit everyday with my free newsletters and support emails that I personally respond to daily. I know what it is like because I used to have bad credit myself from a bankruptcy that I went through many years ago and I have 750+ FICO Credit Scores.
I sleep well at night knowing that I have been able to help so many people from just giving away free information in my weekly credit repair newsletters. You donâ??t have to buy anything from my site and you will still learn new ways to repair bad credit, building new credit and keeping your good credit.
For all of the skeptics out there who believe every negative internet post or comment they find is truly missing out on the BIG picture with the insider credit education that I teach to thousands every day.
YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES TO BE ABLE TO FIND THE SOLUTIONS THAT EXIST
My book Legal Credit Secrets Exposed teaches you much more then how to create a new credit file.
Creating a new credit file for business purposes is always optional and can be used legally if YOU DO NOT intend on committing fraud. This is the part that everyone always forgets. A book cannot force you to do anything illegal. YOU are the only person who would be responsible for YOUR own actions!
But if your question if it is LEGAL to create a new credit file?
I can tell you that reading a book that teaching you everything you need to know to fix your credit and live a better life is not illegal. However, if you use the info in my book for fraudulent purposes, then yes you can get in trouble.
Think about it this way, if you were to contact a lawyer and ask them if it is illegal to open up a business entity and build up a good business credit file to separate your personal assets from your business assets, would that be illegal?
No, it would not be and this is only 1 of the many things you will learn in my book, Legal Credit Secrets Exposed.
Inputing a EIN instead of a social on an app and thereby creating a new file is illegal. It is fraud. Anyone who advises someone to do that can and should be charged with accessory and conspiracy.
Having a shady mortgage broker submit a sham application w/o any SSN on the app leaves the credit reporting agencies no choice but to assign a nine digit number. Again, fraud.
Conversely, submitting an app for a business account with a valid EIN is legal. However, and again, virtually all lenders require a SSN so that they can run your personal credit.
I have no idea what these companies do and frankly, I don't care. However, I am a lawyer and I will advise anyone considering the notion of establishing a "new" file is asking for a felony indictment or information and likely, a conviction.
Don't do it.
Re: New legal 9 digit number??? (YES THIS IS LEGAL)
I think I know a little bit about internet marketing myself. As many people here know I've been around this internet for a very long time, probably for more years than at least 1/4 of all internet denizens have walking around the face of this old earth. More than a quarter of a century of internet marketing experience so I think I know a wee bit about it and one thing I can say is that trying to sell anything on this or any other forum such as this one is certainly not the most effective way to sell much of anything, including credit repair methods or books.
Who is doing that?
Funny! So does every other credit repair expert out there. Quite frankly I've never seen any credit repair expert yet who had a score of less than 750. Sort of reminds me of the days before April 19th, 1995 when the militias were just getting really popular. You couldn't buy a general's star in any army surplus store anywhere. I've often wondered when 850 will become the new standard of excellence. (LOL)
I might have to subscribe to it and might even buy your book to see what all I have been missing. I've already got a small library of such books and still haven't seen much that I considered to be exciting new must have info. Maybe yours will teach me something I don't already know.
Thousands every day? That has to be a huge mailing list
There certainly are a great many of them.
I'll agree that a book or a web site cannot force you to do anything illegal but they can and usually do provide exciting new information that leads gullible people to do all manner of supposedly great things. Let's try a few examples just for kicks. How about taking your latest dunning letter from your favorite debt collector or creditor, endorse the back side and send it to the United States Treasury to help them pay off the national debt? I'm sure most here would like to see how that works. It is really quite simple. You see, when you were born they filled out your birth certificate with all capital letters and filed it with the state thereby creating your strawman. You were also given a 9 digit number at that time which created your treasury offset account and when you grew up and went to work you started paying into your treasury offset account but nobody told you about that so your treasury offset account kept on building over the years and now you can not only use it to pay off all your debts but help pay off the national debt as well. Great stuff that. Of course, your strawman is on the public side and so you have to create your own tinman which is your private side and you must be very careful not to let the two get all mixed up.
Then there is the notary presentment process that you just have to learn all about. If you get a dunning letter demanding payment you simply use a conditional acceptance letter stating that you will conditionally accept the alleged debt conditioned upon their ability to prove that you owe the alleged debt. This must be signed in front of a notary presenter who then has to mail it back to the sender for you using their address. When they fail to prove that you owe the debt you have your notary presenter dishonor the the alleged debt and their hands are tied. They can't do a thing. Same process works for traffic tickets, IRS notices of levy, fines for violation of city ordinances, judgments and just about everything. Pays off student loans too. Great stuff that. I could probably fill up a whole book telling people about all this great stuff they are missing out on and sell it on internet forums for at least $29.95 plus shipping and handling. I'm sure I'd become an overnight millionaire and be able to spend the rest of my days on the sunny shores of Akapolko.
I know of a man who once posted on this forum under the name of westcap who can tell you all about providing false and misleading information to a lender. He now runs a few web sites and calls himself Western Capital something or other and a few other names. He lives in an apartment provided to him by his sister and runs his business from his magnificent suite of offices in Sandy, Utah. Google's arial view of the building shows it to be the location of a boxes etcetera store which probably has a whole wall full of such luxury suites. Robert got 2 years free room and board in a club fed facility for providing false and misleading information to a lender. That makes him quite an expert on the subject.
I just might have to order your book and see what all it is that I don't know. I have 3 corporations which I set up, all 3 of which have excellent income and all 3 have great credit with no personal guarantees of any kind. It took me about 6 months to build a good income and a solid credit rating for each of them at a cost of less than $100 each. I didn't provide any lenders with any false or misleading information to do it and I didn't apply for any credit cards to build great credit scores either.
I'm not an original genius myself. I learned how to set up great credit from a book I bought back about 1943 or somewhere in that time frame. I probably paid about $8 or $10 for the book back then in some bookstore or other. Needless to say that book is no longer in print but the method is still easily available and all you have to do to get the information is just click on my signature line and you will find it quite easily. No charge, no cost, no obligation. Just a click away.
Not to interject into this post once again but, I just wanted to state once more that this stuff is illegal.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO GET A NEW "NUMBER." I don't care if it's called a CPN or someone tells you that you can use a EIN. You can't and you can go to prison. Same thing applies to any "primary" tradeline that offers any sort of history at all.
Since when is it illegal to form a corporation, get a new EIN nuimber, open bank accounts in the corporate name using the IRS issued 9 digit EIN number, establish a solid income for that corporation and develop lines of credit for that corporation without giving any personal guarantees or even giving any personal information about the owner whatever?
In each of my 3 corporations I have established credit with 3 different banks by getting loans from each bank and paid those 3 bank loans off in full. Now your post here greatly concerns me because you seem to be saying that I may be doing something illegal that might land me in prison.
I didn't give anybody any wrong or false information whatever. What have I done wrong?
I wasn't referring to your post Bill. There is nothing wrong at all in applying for a business account using a IRS issued EIN.
I was referring to whoever he is in this post basically telling people to take an EIN and input where a SSN is supposed to be supplied.
Sorry for any confusion.
No problem. I just had to make sure I wasn't doing the wrong thing somehow. No better expert than you to find out about something like that.
Something else I'm wondering about. Does this advertiser we are talking about have a credit repair license or does he need one according to CROA?
I don't know if he has one or not but, yes, he is required to have some type of licensing under FL law. Some of these outfits try and claim they don't fall under the CROA but, they do.
Again, I am not trying to attack anyone here. To each their own as to what they do for a living. The purpose of my posts in this thread are simply to tell people that visit this board that file segregation; i.e., using false numbers framed as your SSN, is illegal and that they face serious criminal charges.
I thought so. I've got another situation going that I think is similar. I've had a web page up which I call 18questions.html on my creditwrench web site for at least 8 or 9 years and I have a student who has suddenly popped up claiming that the idea of the 18 questions to ask debt collectors every time they call is his idea. He is constantly on the Randy Kelton radio show as well as on a google e-group known as Myrland's Methods proclaiming himself to be an expert in credit repair.
This person first contacted me back in 2001 because he was being sued by a debt collector for failure to pay Mexican income taxes. I walked him throug that case and gave him the idea of taking the case federal against the debt collector which he did.
The lawyer for the debt collector wanted to depose him and I told this guy not to go to the lawyer's office for the deposition but rather should rent a conference room at a local library and hold the deposition there. I also told him to get a court reporter there for the deposition which he did. When the lawyer got there he went ballistic over the fact that a court reporter was present. The lawyer called the federal judge to complain and my student was on the phone with me asking how to handle the situation. Now the student claims he was on a 3 way cell phone conversation between himself and the lawyer and the judge. There are many other instances where this person is not telling the truth about how he got his education and is now charging money to teach others how to repair their credit by taking lawyers and debt collectors to federal court.
I don't mind his helping others and I don't mind his wanting money for doing so but I do feel that he ought to at least be giving credit where credit is due. I'm all in favor of his teaching others how to do what he learned how to do. He has won 6 federal cases against debt collectors as well as at least 2 civil cases in local courts so that should easily qualify him to be considered as pretty expert and able as a teacher.
I've got quite a few other students who have also won multiple federal cases for a grand total of 172 straight wins in federal courts against debt collectors and lawyers with never a loss. I think it would be great if some of those people would also teach how to do it but they don't. The only thing I ask is that they don't sell their knowledge claiming that they invented stuff instead of telling the truth about how they learned what they know how to do.
Another side aspect I am also unhappy with is where he is doing the selling which is the web site of a person well known for scamming people out of large sums of money. I don't like my methods being associated with a well known scam artist. People are calling me up and telling me about how my methods are being sold on that web site by this student. They know who he is and they know of his long association with me and they don't like it one little bit. I've even had two lawyers call me up and tell me that they know for a fact that the guy is doing what he is doing. I'd like to get this thing stopped before it ends up hurting me personally so I'm thinking that since he is selling it as a credit repair method maybe I can get him nailed for operating an illegal CROA and taking the scammer along with him since they are affiliated and the scammer is raking off half of the take in the process. So I'm wondering if the fact that they are advertising that this is some kind of credit repair method is a way I can put an end to what is going on. I'm thinking that I can. What do you think?
I can't give you any legal advice because I'm not licensed in Oklahoma. Speaking in general terms, I think you'd be opening a can of worms that really isn't worth it. Again, that is just my opinion based on experience in matters somewhat similar to what you explained.
Personally, I never touch a case where issues of proof are in play. It has to be rock solid as to liability. Damages . . . well, I don't take anything (outside consumer protection litigation in terms of money) unless I think the person has been substantially harmed and that I can help them. When I say substantially harmed I mean wronged in the workplace, seriously injured (has to be 100k), or it has to be a wrongful death case.
In other words, I don't want file frivilous lawsuits so I don't. You can go to Pacer and verify that.
Applying the above to your question and facts, while I don't think it would be frivilous I just think it would have so many issues it would irritate the court.
Again, this is just my opinion and I cannot give you (or anyone here) legal advice.
I had not even considered making a federal case out of it. That thought had never crossed my mind in this instance. I was just thinking of alerting a couple of gov. agencies, at both the federal and state levels and if that didn't go anywhere then just let it alone.
Now that I consider the thought of filing a federal suit on a private attorney general basis I would agree with you. Not worth the time and trouble.
Oh yea, you could make some administrative complaints. No question about that. However, you know as well as I that won't get you very far. I just don't put any faith in AG offices, the BBB and the like because at the end of the day it comes down to a private legal matter.
But, yes, you could rattle his cage, lol.
I was actually contemplating being a bit sneakier about it than that. Rather than filing any actual complaints I was thinking about threatening to sue the radio show he broadcasts on from time to time and the scammer with a lawsuit under CROA and let them chew on that for a while. My thinking is that they might just run quicker than the actual offender. They might just shut him down from advertising on their platforms rather than take a chance I just might do what I threaten to do and get the job done that way. Kinds under the table like. (LOL)
When it comes to filing federal lawsuits for violations of CROA I'd much rather sue a debt collector or a lawyer for being an illegal credit repair organization. Haven't had the opportunity to do that yet but I doubt that it will be very long before that actually happens. They have much deeper pockets and are much more susceptible to such an action, much more likely to fall into the trap. I'm fixing to find out if I can sue the lawyer in my current lawsuit for being an illegal credit repair organization within the next few days.
Up to now I too have been using that stupid estoppel letter as the second in my series of debt collection letters but I'm going to replace it with my CROA letter. That will be just as effective if it don't work and if it does then it will prove to be many times more effective in running them off since it would be a much quicker route to the federal courthouse.
I always advise people never to send one of those dumb estoppel letters to a lawyer because they would know instantly that it was just some patriot crap but they would never suspect the CROA letter as being anything more than a simple request possibly leading to a quick and easy settlement of their claim. Even so it probably won't work with most attorneys because they don't have the capability to do what the letter seemingly asks them to do. Debt collectors all have the ability to do what is suggested and may very well fall into the trap. With the economy being what it is and as agressive as some of them are getting these days. The letter actually has two different hidden traps built into it so they could violate either one and get hung either or even both ways. (LOL)
You know, and this is good information for readers of the board, a lot of debt collectors and particularly debt purchasers do fall under the auspices of the CROA. Why? Well, they either explicitly state in a dunning letter that paying the debt will "help" your credit or imply strongly that it will. That's credit repair folks.
Just food for thought . . .
I've only once sued for a client under the CROA. It was against a small debt settlement company out of Texas. It worked pretty well for her. Not much for me but, they paid without filing an Answer.
It's on pacer for the United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee if anyone wishes to see how to frame such an argument.
Any chance you would be willing to give us a case number? I would at least like to see it.