Hello all - I think I have the worst credit on earth. When I was in college in 1999, the school would routinely have about 30 different booths in every hallway with people giving away merchandise, I recall getting like 10 credit cards, sometimes 2 from the same company. As I didn't have much money in school, I recall the cards would keep going up, but I managed them to a degree. My Dad passed away in 2001, so I basically let most of them go as I had no "spoiled college kid" buffer any longer to pay payments. I graduated in 2005 from school and after a few years I have a fantastic job. I was sued by one company while out of the country in late 2005, and apparently my mom signed the summons, and they got a judgment against me which I just paid of around $3700. I don't even know what credit card it was for because the debt had been sold and sold again! Anyway, I was so glad to get this off my back as nobody else has bothered me for years, and then my mom tells me "I got some mail for you" and I see like 7 letters from lawyers. It is like everyone miraculously found out that I payed my lawsuit. I don't know what to do... I stopped paying for these cards at 2003 at the latest. I am in FL, and I thought that the Statute of Limitations for collections was 4 years, but from what it seems, every time they sell my debt to another agency, the clock starts over. Is that how it works? In that case, the advice many have given to people with really old debt, "Don't worry, it will come off your record after 7 years and they can't collect after 4 years" is not true. I'm not necessarily trying to get out of paying, but my understanding was that they couldn't collect after 4 years. If they keep reselling the debt, it sounds like it never ends.... Anyway, thanks for any advice.
You need to use the search function and read everything that has ever been posted here on Statute of Limitations. And you need to go to the stickied threads and read all of them. The short answer to your question is no, that's not how it works. But collection agencies want you to think that it is. They can file a lawsuit, and if you don't show up to fight it they get a default judgment. Don't let that happen. Defending against a lawsuit that is brought after the SOL expires is not hard, but you have to do it. You have to respond, within the time set by the court, or you lose. If you do respond, you win. It's that easy. Edited to add: poke around here and elsewhere. Google "sue your creditors." Not only can you win if they sue you, you might even be able to make THEM pay YOU for reporting inaccurate information on your credit reports and for using illegal tactics to try to collect a debt.
The SOL begins on the first day/month/year when you first became delinquent. While the debt might be resold over and over again, your best bet would be to get something officially in writing stating that the debt first became delinquent on such and such date. If you get sued just raise the SOL defense, and show the judge that official writing. Get a validation from the CA. Those bums might not list the first date of delinquency, but they have to list the original creditor, who you can contact then and get the exact date of first delinquency.
They can figure this out. Dumb Bob doesn't know that there is ever a statute that bars collecting debt in Florida. Legally or do they just do it that way? "Reaging" debt often occurs in the above situations even if it isn't foll0owing the law, the hope being that you won't educate yourself enough to know what to do. It's important to consider what "never ends". The first thing to do is find out really whether or not you are inside or outside of each statute of limitations in the state of Florida or wherever you could be sued. Only with this information known without any doubt whatsoever can you plot your next move.
I think the original poster should get this information from his or her own sources for each debt first before making any contact at all. Only with this information can the right course be well considered. Part of the problem is that there is often nothing offical at all. Everything is "lost". Does the OC really have this information? Or is it "lost"?
In Florida a card that you can use in only one store is 4 years (by case law), even if a bank issued it (example: Home Depot issued by Citibank). A card that you can use everywhere is 5 years, even if it's an affinity card with a particular store chain (example: Target Visa). Yes, if you pay or settle one, anyone who's lurking is going to get an alert from one or more of the CRAs (one CRA calls it their "collection triggers" service). Then the dunning starts again. In some instances even an account that is beyond SOL should be settled ... if you're ever going to face a background check (or a credit pull for a job over $75k) or a $150k+ mortgage ("full factual" report) or going to get some life insurance, the old debts could bite. Law enforcement or plum government jobs, bar association applications, etc. often also have the ability to make you disclose (and even settle) old, unpaid debt if you want your ticket into the profession. The SOL, even when it works, is not necessarily your ticket to nirvana ... sometimes the ugly scars remain, and someone you want to get with only takes the unblemished...
Dumb Bob wonders what would happen if you disputed after the SOL to take the debt to court but before the reporting SOL. Would, if you were lucky, this mean that it was really gone if they didn't verify it? Another bit of wondering, can you dispute things that aren't on the credit report but are on the "full" credit report?
AFAIK, disputing something that's on your report and having it go away as unverified means that you won't be seeing it again. However, I don't believe there is any dispute mechanism for what is carried on the "full factual" beyond 7 years ... logically, the same disputing procedures should apply, but I don't believe it has been litigated. Consider that to dispute you need your own report to dispute from, with a control number. And there doesn't seem to have been any mechanism set up in the law to require the CRAs to give you any version of your report that keeps negative data past 7 years. So for that older stuff, and its negative effects, we're almost back to the days of your credit report reflecting how many liquor bottles the Welcome Wagon lady spied in your trash, and whether she reported that your children were clean and shod.
Thanks for the info guys. I took your advice and read through the forum all day. I am left with a giant "Huh?" because so many people have told me the SOL for collections of a standard credit card in FL is 4 years and then Flacorps has said 5 years. Flacorps, you obviously sound like you know what you are talking about. I need to find out which statute is going to apply to typical credit card debt (I have no store cards). I read through the Florida Statutes 95.11 (3) and I am even more confused.
Also, the only information I have about how long it has been since I have had any account activity is my credit report from the three major credit reporting agencies. Do you think it would hold up in court? Doesn't this mean that if my credit report is wrong it is either a conspiracy to committ fraud by TransUnion, Experian, and Equifax, or else collusion between the OC and collector? My hope is that the judge would accept my credit report, which shows last reported activity with OC, as evidence that this is beyond the SOL. If this doesn't sound like a good idea, let me know.
The four year store card case is "PORTFOLIO RECOVERY ASSOCIATES, LLC, Appellant, v_ PAUL FERNANDES, Appellee_ Circuit Court, 15th Judicial Circuit (Appellate) in and for Palm Beach County" ... the card was a Sears card. Proof that SOL has passed is the responsibility of the debtor, because it's an "affirmative defense" used by the debtor ... however, the creditor is the party that has to have all its records in order so that it can prove its "case in chief" (main contentions), and the debtor has a right to use the discovery process to obtain all that proof from the creditor ... assuming no shenanigans on the part of the creditor, that proof will be conspicuously bereft of any payments by the debtor after a certain date, and the result would be that your case would be proven out of their mouths. But watch out for "phantom payments" you didn't make.
Not to be a buzzkill, but I've spent a second entire day reading every post I could on this board. I am starting to see that the new consensus is: "OK, kid - you had a chance to battle the collection agencies and OC's 5-7 years ago, but things have changed and unless you are willing to basically become a lawyer, you are out of luck. The CA's don't need to validate anything. Write all of the letters you want - you're wasting your time and making it worse for yourself. Get an attorney in your county. Oh wait - you can't, because any lawyer that knows about credit-debtor law works for the creditors. So, hey, it's your word as a lowlife who doesn't pay his bills versus a guy that represents Citibank and wears a $900 suit, regardless of what evidence either of you have on paper (and you have none except your credit report). But, you COULD learn everything that you can about consumer law; you'll need lots of time and access to legal resources. Even so, you will never know enough to defend yourself because you are being attacked by someone with a law degree and legal experience, so, again, uh, get a lawyer, which you can't find. And if you can, they must be crap, because if they were good, they'd be representing Citibank. Loser. =P" Am I getting this right? Or is there still any hope? Again, the only proof I have of the expired Statute of Limitations in FL is a copy of my Equifax credit report. I can find no consistent answers to "When the clock starts" and I can find no definite answer on who I should be talking to - the CA, the OC, or the law firms that some of the CAs have assigned. I can also find no consistent answer on whether simply sending a letter informing the CA or law firm or OC that the SOL has expired as well as the defense I intend to give is an effective solution. Again, no one has sued me yet (lately), but half of the letters are from CAs, and the other half, law firms. Some have no info on my credit report as to when the last activity is, and I am completely in the dark.... arg, as is typically the case, more research yields more questions and fewer answers. I wonder how Stephen Hawking makes it through the day.
Not a Hopeless Situation, No Major Genius needed to win Do not ever send an SOL letter unless you're willing to take the tax hit of a 1099-c form. Always either just be a dog in the manger without straight up refusing to pay the debt, or use their inability to fully document the claim to withhold payment unless and until they show that they would have proof enough to win in court and prove that they are the rightful owner of the claim (fully documented chain of ownership back to the OC). Do not despair. Send 'em all DVs, wait for any validation they might provide. CHances are most of them will fold. Some might sue. Use the defense of lack of proof to the extent you can, and the SOL defense must be asserted as well, but try to have the case turn on the former, not the latter. Anytime a claim is abandoned due to SOL, a 1099-c form must issue. P.S. - When a lawyer is in the picture, run communications through the lawyer unless you have an insider at the creditor who is seriously helpful (and that will be very seldom). A lawyer can't circumvent another lawyer. But a civilian is allowed to circumvent a lawyer ... and if the creditor is dumb enough to cut the lawyer out of the loop, that's their problem, not yours.
Nope, you've missed the point. Go ahead and dispute the validity of the debts. Just send the collection agency a letter (CMRR) that says "I dispute the validity of this debt." See what happens. Technically, they don't have to answer if you don't do this within 30 days of their initial communication to you, but don't let that stop you. Many agencies will fold at this point. If the debt is over 7 years old, dispute it with the CRA's. Get it taken off your credit reports. If a collection agency puts a new collection on your report for a debt that went bad over 7 years ago, dispute with both the CA and the CRA. If they sue you, file an answer to the suit and show up in court to defend yourself. They can't win a suit on a debt that is out of the SOL, unless you fail to offer a defense and they get a default judgment. You don't need a lawyer to defend against these guys, all the information you need to fight the suit is right here. Keep everything they send you. Read the FDCPA. Look for violations. Be prepared to SUE THEM. If you're dealing with the kind of JDBs and CAs that I think you are dealing with, they probably owe you more for violations than you ever owed the creditors.
Thanks for the info everyone. So I will send them debt validation letters. Is it better to just send a straight forward one, like me talking to them and basically saying I dispute it and I need verification of the debts, or should I use one of the over-the-top "I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the internet" letters on the example Sticky? Flacorps, So SOL is a last ditch defense (that will work) but I will have to pay some sort of taxes on some part of the amount? I am familiar with 1099s for self employment which I pay taxes on... is this a variant? TeeVeeDude, So I should send a validation letter. But you are saying that they don't have to answer me, but it shouldn't stop me. If they don't *have* to answer me, and this question goes to anyone, how can I use it as proof in court? Why would they fold if they aren't bound to answer me? None of the debt I have is over 7 years old, it is all 4 to 5 years since final payment. So regardless, I guess my current plan is to make a typical, self-made dispute letter rather than using one from the site, unless you think the threatening legal letters are more effective. I would just assume if they see some letter they know I printed off from the internet most likely that they'd realize that I was already planning my defense against a possible suit. But if I am just straight up, "I dispute this debt please send me yada yada evidence of the validity of the debt as well as evidence of your ownership or assigned representation by the original creditor," I'd think they'd be like, "Oh, this is some bozo, blow him off." Thanks so much, guys. You are incredible people to offer so much help on this forum.
It's called COD (Cancellation Of inDebtedness) income. A form 982 will take care of the problem if you're actually insolvent, otherwise you pay tax. If you want the whole rundown, google up a court decision called "Debt Buyers Association v. Snow".
The deal on validation is that if you request it within 30 days, they have to stop all collection efforts until they provide it. Obviously, you are beyond the 30 days for most, if not all, of these collectors. But sending a validation letter lets them know that you are aware of your rights and you aren't going to just roll over and pay them. For some CA's that alone is enough to make them go away. If they respond by validating, or if they respond that they don't have to validate, then you have to take further steps. If the debt is beyond SOL then you hold all the cards. Keep their letters and if you talk to them on the phone, record the conversation (if that's legal in your state, otherwise just take really detailed notes). Give them half a chance and they are almost guaranteed to violate the FDCPA. A well-worded letter at that point can result in THEM sending YOU a check.
On another board, and if this is correct which I believe it is, a JDB cannot issue a 1099C if you settle for less than they want unless they paid the total amount of charge off. Now all that said, I would like to know what the real deal is. I have never gotten any 1099 C's,in the years I have been dealing with my debts, and have an accountant who is on top of things like this. So perhaps this is all a moot point,as it is not legal? However, if I do get one,from a JDB,what do I do about it? Thanks Woofer
I want to know, as well. If there is no worry of 1099c, then I don't see why I shouldn't just be straight up with these people and say "I dispute the debt, and regardless, the SOL is expired for this type of debt in my state as per Statute yada yada.... please buzz off, a-holes."
