http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34738-2002Sep3.html "From the moment the Transportation Security Administration was formed, agency officials have been consumed by the idea of a vast network of supercomputers that would instantly probe every passenger's background for clues about violent designs. ... In recent months, the agency hired four teams of technology companies that have honed their expertise in profiling for casinos, marketing companies and financial institutions. Their mission was to demonstrate how artificial intelligence and other powerful software can analyze passengers' travel reservations, housing information, family ties, identifying details in credit reports and other personal data to determine if they're "rooted in the community" -- or have an unusual history that indicates a potential threat. ... Under the plan, passengers would be required, when making their reservations, to provide identifying information -- a name and address, plus such things as passport, Social Security and frequent-flier numbers. Those details would be used by private data services, such as ChoicePoint Inc., an identification and verification company, to supply more information about the individual. TSA computers would then use artificial intelligence and other sophisticated software, along with behavior models developed by intelligence agencies, to determine whether the passenger is "rooted in the community" -- whether he or she is well established in the United States -- and find links to others who might be terrorists, according to government documents and interviews. ... A more refined proposal emerged in January, when the TSA decided to test a prototype in Salt Lake City during the Winter Olympics the next month, according to a document describing the scope of work. In that plan, private companies were supposed to crunch information from commercial databases, state driver's-license agencies, telephone numbers, deceased-persons files, airline reservation systems, the FBI and the Secret Service to develop a risk "score" for each passenger. But the Salt Lake initiative faltered. Agency officials lost confidence that it could be quickly implemented, according to people familiar with the process. One of the vendors complicated matters by expressing concern about its legal liability for making a mistake, according to an e-mail obtained by EPIC. ... "At some point, you just run out of hours in the day to listen to people who are smart," one official said. ... In February, agency officials decided to run a comparison test of systems. A March 8 request for "white papers" required companies to demonstrate they had experience with the financial industry, fraud detection, risk assessment and the authentication of individuals. It also required the companies to describe how they would handle "Privacy Rights and Interests/Civil Rights/Confidentiality." Two months later, four teams received grants. Officials from the companies declined to publicly discuss their roles in CAPPS II, saying they were warned by the TSA that such disclosures might undermine national security. ... HNC Software, now a part of Fair, Isaac & Co., won the largest grant, $551,001. HNC is a risk-detection specialist that works for credit card issuers, telephone companies, insurers and others. It works with several other companies that have access to seating records of virtually every U.S. airline passenger or that collect such information as land records, car ownership, projected income, magazine subscriptions and telephone numbers. HNC employs neural networks, which can discern subtle patterns and relationships by processing millions, or billions, of records. The company, which has received funding from DARPA, uses its software to profile the activity of millions of credit card owners, telephone callers and insurance beneficiaries for fraud. About the time of the Salt Lake initiative, HNC proposed a prototype that would allow authorities, based in control rooms, to examine potential threats across the aviation system. One computer screen included a "prioritized passenger list" that ranked passengers on a flight from the highest risk to the lowest. The same screen displayed a box with the names of other travelers the computer had somehow linked to a high-risk passenger. Other screens showed an aggregate threat for planes, airports and the entire system.
Absolutely not! If they even consider this I refuse to fly ever again. Why must we lose our freedom to defend our security? This is stupid. In the near future, I have no doubt they will be inserting chips in our heads to analyze how we think, where we are at any given point, etc. Pure utmost bull crap. Why the hell do we accept this? I know I am going to end up moving to Sweden...I just know it. Dani
From the article: 'The National Aeronautics and Space Administration proposed a system that would depend in part on examining passengers' brain waves with "neuro-electric sensing" devices to assess risk, documents obtained by EPIC show. "At some point, you just run out of hours in the day to listen to people who are smart," one official said.'
AIRLINES HAVE LOST PROBABLY $1,000,000,000+ IN POST (09/11/2001) AND FUTURE AIRFARE...ANY MORE CUSTOMER INCONVIENCE...ALL AIRLINES WILL GO BK (SOME ALREADY ARE)...
I know what you guys are saying, but that may be the price to pay for safety. The same people griping about the security measures are usually the first ones screaming that the industry didn't do enough to protect them in the event of a tradgedy.
There is a FINE LINE between SECURITY and OVER-KILL SECURITY I'M STILL FLYING...BUT WOULD FLY MORE IF I COULD SKIP ALL THE "OVER-KILL SECURITY" When I use to be at LAX in 4 hours from my house in CO...now I have to allow 6+ hours... I'm flying HOME TO LAX on 09/15/02 to save time and GRIEF I'm staying SATURDAY NIGHT near DIA...(and I have a SATURDAY afternoon WEDDING to go to anyway ~20 miles from DIA)...
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety. --Benjamin Franklin
AMEN, JohnM!!!!!!!!!!!! Here's two other threads, one specific to airline screening that was discussed before and the other about the longgggggg arm of the CRA's. http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?threadid=26802 http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?threadid=26571 It is scarier to me that people are believing this kind of thing is the price with have to pay for security -- that's propoganda at it's finest! Sassy
A society that will trade a little order for a little freedom will lose both, and deserve neither. --Thomas Jefferson If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort that it values more, it will lose that too. --W. Somerset Maugham There is no â??slippery slopeâ? toward loss of liberties, only a long staircase where each step downward must first be tolerated by the American people and their leaders .--Alan K. Simpson The people will never give up their liberties but under some delusion. --Edmund Burke In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. --Edward Gibbon Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. --Ronald Reagan The cure for evil and disorder is more liberty, not suppression. --Alexander Berkman The Big Lie is a major untruth uttered frequently by leaders as a means of duping and controlling the constituency. --Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf And anyone that questions the motives of Bush and Ahcroft are accussed of being traitors. It makes me sad that America, I country that I would give up my life to defend fron her enemys, is now using 911 to justify taking away my libertys and rights in exchange for a false "promise" of safety. I bet that the security "FICO" score would be about as good a judge of your security risk as it is an indicator of your driving record. One of the items used would be your credit history, which as we all know is a great indicator of what kind of person you really are. EVERYONE on this board should be AFRAID of these actions and fight this silly proposal, WE are the ones that will end up with a LOW score. JohnM
JohnM, Brilliant post. Without freedom, we will never be safe. In my opinion, I truly feel our civil liberties are being taken away day by day. As each day goes by something new is on the horizon to evade our privacy, our decisions, and our freedom in making those choices. We have committed ourselves to being guilty and to prove our innocence, instead of the other way around. When is too much? I am fully aware that our government cannot protect 273 million Americans at all times. Mathmatically it is not possible. But, there are laws on the books...which aren't being followed. We do not need to make new laws, we do not need to implement new agencies, and we do not have to scare the average American into giving up our freedom in order to feel more secure. That makes us no better than any other communist country. Think I am crazy? Each freedom we willingly give up means another rule, or another person that controls us. Our Founding Fathers are turning over in their graves. Dani
Dani, I lived for a few years in a very old Richmond house, in Church Hill, only two blocks from St. Johns Church, the site of Patrick Henrys famous speech. I have visited Monticello, Mount Vernon, Gettysburg, and the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation is one of my best clients. This gives me an appreciation for the sacrifices and actions of those that founded this great country. People forget that these great American heroâ??s were ordinary men (and women), citizens that made extraordinary efforts and sacrifices to gain and preserve the rights that are being challenged every day by well meaning but misinformed politicians. These words by Mr. Henry have a special meaning to me; Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! --Patrick Henry And these by another patriot: We owe it to our ancestors to preserve entire those rights, which they have delivered to our care; we owe it to our posterity, not to suffer their dearest inheritance to be destroyed. --Anonymous, 1769 I apologize to the board for taking this subject â??off topicâ? but the privacy and sanctity of our records both financial, as well as personal are at risk. The so-called â??Patriots Actâ? has breached the wall of our right to be secure in our lives against unwanted government intrusion and we have been fed this under the guise of â??Homeland Securityâ? I want our government to swiftly and decisively punish those that attempt to destroy America, but do not do it at the expense of our rights; these rights are what make us the great nation we are. If in fighting terrorism we become a nation of â??Big Brotherâ? then our enemies have won and America as we know it will have perished. JohnM Ps I now retire my soapbox and will refrain from further comments
Do not do it at the expense of our rights; these rights are what make us the great nation we are. If in fighting terrorism we become a nation of â??Big Brotherâ? then our enemies have won and America as we know it will have perished. JohnM =============== If this is carried to its extreme we wind up only in replacing the present terrorist with our own tourist from within and we have become our own worst enemy.
I don't think ASHCROFT can comprehend this concept!!!! He reminds me of a DICTATOR, I remember seeing him on CNN, FLIPPING OUT, when he thought he had lost the election in his state, before he bacame the A.G.
"It works with several other companies that have access to seating records of virtually every U.S. airline passenger or that collect such information as land records, car ownership, projected income, magazine subscriptions and telephone numbers." "PROJECTED INCOME" ??????!!!!!!!!!! I would like to know which companies have access to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
POST CORRECTION Do not do it at the expense of our rights; these rights are what make us the great nation we are. If in fighting terrorism we become a nation of â??Big Brotherâ? then our enemies have won and America as we know it will have perished. JohnM =============== If this is carried out to its extreme we wind up only in replacing the present terrorist with our own terrorist from within and we have become our own worst enemy. LB 59
TSA can't find a machine gun in a suit case going through an xray machine. Let em try it. They'll screw it up. (which might actually be the problem) LOL
I too, live in Virginia (Northern/Central). I think one has a greater appreciation for history when one studies it and sees it. I love walking through the Governor's Mansion in Williamsburg or Monticello in Charlottesville...these men were brilliant. I don't think they foresaw the drastic change in America today, but their intentions were true and noble. I am just sorry Thomas Jefferson is not living among us presently. If we forego and ignore the same qualities that made this country a success... I believe we will create our own failure in the end. Dani
