pbm- While I respect your position as moderator of this board I thinks your comments regarding me were way off base. I do not capriciously (defined as compulsively or unpredictably) invite people to email me privately. I invite a private email in cases of people who are inquiring about filing for bk. The information one needs to know in order to advise a person well is not the kind of info people are comfortable posting on a board with 3,000+ members. Also I have discovered in communicating with these members that at first they didn't even know HOW to email someone privately. While many people think there is safety in a board's anonymity...if a poster comes back their historical beginnings are still around for people to search on...and there have been times that a poster's past postings have been thrown in their face..."clc in one of your earlier post you mentioned you were on disability now you say you are a paralegal..." I shared my disability story with milkmom in order to show not only compassion for what she was going through but also to let her know I empathized with her situation. Yet two months later that was taken out of context and used to discredit my integrity. In adressing what I felt was a real slap in the face I think I showed a great amount of restraint given the insult to me and the attack on my dignity. If that is your definition of vociferous temper than you're standards for a show of temper are alot lower than mine. The numerous comparisons to bbauer were also most offensive...and the comparison was used to BE OFFENSIVE. I have never posted on any board to self promote in order to make money from people who are desparate. I do not give a little "bait and switch" advice to lure peolp into paying for my services or advice. I think these tactics are beneath contempt and I found it highly derogatory and way off base to compare me to a person that does just that. As for the "name calling" if you read the posts in order I was not the one who initiated the name calling...as I was first referred to as a "moron" and then was told to "put that in my pipe and smoke it". So any reference to that kind of activity should be fair and well balanced...or is it ok for long term members to name call new members...if so then it should be written somewhere in the "rules of the board". I have started in the past week two thread that dealt with the Bk Reform Act...I attempted to dissect the new laws and explain what effect they were going to have on the credit consumer. After attacks on one thread and derision on another I just gave up on both of them. But when the new laws are passed and they take effect they will have far reaching effects on all laws that pertain to consumers. So the old timers here will have to go back to square one just like the newbies as most of their efforts and successes will no longer be valid. Instead of running off a member who is knowledgeable and is participating more to help than to take is a strategy that will in the long run discount the efficacy of this board. In conclusion...there is a member who posts in his signature "my email is always on"...now that member is a friend of mine and I respect the research he does and his posts are usually intellectually challenging...but why is that not a "capricious" solicitation for people to privately email him? BTW he has only been a member a couple of weeks longer than I. Also I went back and read ALL 141 posts that mentioned private emailing suggestions so if this is against the house rules than maybe that function should be disabled. If I am guilty of flagrantly ignoring the creditnet house rules than you certainly can exercise your "banning" capabilities. Until that time I will continue to invite people who want to discuss delicate personal financial matters to do it via private emails so that I can let them know what their legal rights are vis-avis bk. clc PS I also think a private email to me on this subject would have been more courteous, polite, discreet and eminently more fair.
Oh, lord, forgive me for participating in this thread. LOL... 1) To the original poster: There really *is* some good advice here if you look closely, lol. Consider posting a second thread for follow-up BK questions. Although I certainly can't speak for the combatants here, I would venture as a guess that they would at least all agree to avoid turning that one into a catfight as well. 2) I'm the one who made up with clc via email. (clc, I hope I'm not violating YOUR privacy by saying so, but I wanted to speak up to confirm that part of what you said here. Just in case someone thought she made that up, I'm here to say, "No, she did not." Also, clc, I want you to know that I do appreciate the fact that you left the door open to allowing me to decide whether to participate in this vein.) Let me just say that my behavior toward clc was indefensibly rude, and I was really embarrassed by that, and I told her so. Had she not initiated email contact with me, I wouldn't have had the guts to speak up first myself, by the way (as much as I hate to admit that). 3) I don't even remember now what my original beef with clc was. Of course, I realize I could take my own advice that I have often given regarding "SEARCHING THE BOARD" ... lol, but frankly I would rather not remember. In the spirit of group therapy, I think my issue really had more to do with me than with clc in that I'm used to newcomers sitting back for 6 or 8 weeks, taking it all in, reading a lot, etc., before offering up their expertise. clc shook up my paradigm a bit, but woop-dee-do, lol, I really need to question the narcissism that results in my believing that things should occur according to my expectations. Also... and I don't know if clc would agree, but hey, this is my opinion (and everyone has one, ahem, as the old half-joke goes), but clc isn't exactly one to mince words when it comes to offering opinions about others here. She's not shy about either praising or insulting, and that violated my little precious world view about how newcomers should interact. (Woop-dee-do again, clearly my problem, not hers, lol.) If Lizardking says something harsh about someone, I think nothing of it. If JoeB12345, who I've only known for a week here, says the exact same thing, all my alarms go off. I need to take a look at that. Moreover, I'm not above offering up a few insults myself, as I've demonstrated during bad hair days here once a month or so, so if I have a problem with that at all, again, I need to look at myself. 4) I will say that I SERIOUSLY DISAGREE with the idea that LKH has not posted anything valuable. Frankly, that is ridiculous. (clc, at least you'll agree with me that dissent makes the world go round here, lol, so I'll continue.) I can think of so many occasions where LKH's counsel has just been dead-on. In fact, during the early months of my own credit repair, his posts were must-reads because he has a wonderful knack of getting right to the point and making even the most complicated FCRA/FDCPA provision seem downright simple. And -- bonus -- he's almost always right on the money. And -- double bonus -- when he's been wrong, he's one of those people who aren't afraid to just say, "hey, wow, thanks, you learn something new every day." Finally -- triple bonus -- he plays well with others (well, until he gets insulted, lol), which is probably the biggest reason he's clearly among the most-loved contributors to this board imho. I'll stop now before this turns into a valentine, lol, but the comment about LKH's alleged irrelevance really needs a strong rebuttal. 5) WHY DOES BILL BAUER CONTINUE TO BE A PUNCHING BAG HERE? Bill was a terrific contributor to this board, and NO, he didn't save all the best advice for his paying customers. Now before all the Bkev alter-egos and affiliates start their attacks (lol, don't ask), let me admit that BILL BAUER IS A GOOD ONLINE FRIEND OF MINE. So what. Moreover, I can personally attest to his usefulness and his helpfulness, both as a paid consultant and as a free advice-giver. That's all I'll say about Bill, but I wish somebody would give Bill a break for a change -- especially the old-timers here. I wish Bill was still posting here. 6) I guess I had a sixth point, but it's too late now to remember it. Doc
i don't really have much to say, except bump this thread it makes for good reading. everyone's so articulate, guess that's why you are heading into the lawyer-type profession. i'm a techie, like to say it in the fewest words possible. this text window in IE is pretty tiny for that much text to type, do you prep it in notepad or something before pasting it in? in any case, blah blah blah, can't we all agree to disagree, whatever your view point is and get back to credit fixing?
Doc, and the others, I appreciate your kind comments. Once again, I didn't intend this to be a knock against BBauer. I also like Bill. It was intended to be a FRIGGIN JOKE. Believe it or don't, at this point I hardly care. LOL
PBM, my heartfelt thanks for your post! ClC: Time for you to do a happy dance..you won!! You can celebrate your achievement. Psych: No, wait, forget it. A short and sweet goodbye to everyone with loads of thanks and appreciation for what this place has meant to me. I thought I'd contributed some and hope I have. If nothing else, hopefully some humor. George: A special GOODBYE to you....you are an awesome human being! Breeze & LKH: My friend!
Dear clc, With all due respect, the notion that privacy is required "to advise a person well" on matters of bankruptcy is to some degree shallow and trite. One can apply that argument to virtually every credit problem, be it garnishment, foreclosure, judgment or a lien. According to your rationale these would be better handled in email, leaving little if any purpose in hosting a public credit forum such as ours. Such obstinacy threatens to undermine the efficacy of our board. But it is the pernicity with which you solicit a private point of contact that makes you suspect in the eyes of some. Whereas eight different members found it possible to publicly respond to atargett's inquiry with relevant information, your first and only response consisted of an overt solicitation. Regardless how well-meaning the gesture, doing so is inappropriate and against house rules. Your inability to grasp the difference between this and the inclusion of an email address in one's signature is not sufficient ground for me to reverse our policy. I believe the essence of your post is most poignantly reflected in the opening and closing lines of your response: "While I respect your position as moderator of this board...I will continue to invite people who want to discuss delicate personal financial matters to do it via private emails." I would never consider banning even the most pertinacious member so long as he or she pledges compliance with Creditnet's terms. But I will not hesitate to terminate your account if you continue to violate them. Sincerely, pbm
Re: Cant we all just get along? Wow--- in the grand scheme of things does it really matter? To be honest, I am a "newbie" by definition-- or what the definition of a newbie is in regards to this particular board. I guess we can ignore that I have been reading up on credit repair since-- I guesstimate since early 2000 when I purchased a new pc and acquired cable highspeed service. I am one rarely to post on any mailing list, message board, etc etc unless I have something which I view is valuable to say or if I have questions for clarification. I consider myself a "newbie" for the sake of actual moving onto step 2 of my credit repair of sending out letters, disputes, etc etc. I will say like most other internet gathering holes there is a definate "clique" on this forum. Not that this is intentional or even conscious but in general I believe most newbies and not so new newbies would agree. Similar to an industry recruiters network to which I belong certain posters are able to self-promote their services, advice, shoe size, etc etc under the guise of being helpful whereas nonmembers of the inner core are flamed mercilessly for even the slightest inkling or offer of "off-the-list assistance" or mention of their particular service. As an aside, I appreciate the fact that PsychDoc even posted a statement similar to making mention of the fact of disregarding insults thrown by "old-timers" versus not so old timers. Regardless, I find any name calling, any soapbox standing, any showing off of look-how-helpful-I-have-been type gesturing to be both undesirable on anyone's part be they old timer, not so old timer, or newbie. I think the majority of this post should have been regulated to private email instead of being turned into a spanking session. Of course, in my past (and this means having been on the internet since 1993-94) I have found that people tend to not like going to private email because there is no longer a knock out fest or quite as enjoyable as doing it in a public forum. Personally, I think all parties are guilty. I am guilty to even responding to this thread, but I truly felt like I needed to regardless of my "newbie" status which I am wondering at this point am I a newbie until I reach the 500 post mark? I think the BBauer, even if intended as a joke, sounded like a barb-- should have Clc responded? No, probably not, but then again I have been known to have a fiesty temperament as well so I can not say that I would not have said something back in return as well. I especially think there was some barbing going back and forth because the rebuttals and the name calling and the insinuations kept going back and forth back and forth back and forth.... I do hope that all parties can maybe understand that regardless of who is "right" and who is "wrong" to some people (such as myself) regardless of how many posts one has made or how little... and regardless of how one's reputation is viewed or not viewed-- it personally makes me wary of either one's posts. As for private email-- I can understand why some users would like to have access or be invited to email others-- simply for the fact it seems as if some threads or postings receive an extreme amount of results whereas other threads receive practically any attention at all.
Re: Cant we all just get along? Wow, thanks for saying nice things about me. Now let me NOT return the favor. The idea that certain people are able to "promote their services" here over newcomers makes me wonder if you've even paid the slightest attention during your time on this board of less than a month. The fact that you've been playing online since 1993 certainly fails to give weight to the rest of your "does it really matter" point. Yes, it really matters. clc -- through her brash, strident, and sometimes callously insulting (maybe clc will disagree) debut here -- really upset quite a few people, and that matters. I personally decided that: a) in my case, much of the problem resulted from the differing standards I applied to newcomers as opposed to "oldcomers" lol, and b) my name-calling in response to her was juvenile and even more rude. PBM is making another point here related to how private solicitation violates the rules, and that matters too. So, yeah, it matters. Doc
Re: Cant we all just get along? One more comment, lucky2day9: If you've been on the net for a long time, you'll remember when Usenet newsgroups were "the thing" and the web didn't yet exist. At that time, the newsgroups provided lively discussion forums for the academic and industry elites -- scientists, professors, students, etc. Sure, there were tons of others participating as well, but most regular people who ventured online were overwhelmingly roped off in what were then known as standalone "online services" -- Compuserve, Prodigy, GEnie, Delphi, The Source, and the fledgling America Online (previously known as QuantumLink, AppleLink, and PC-Link). I well remember when the online services opened their doors and linked their members to the internet. The "AOL-ization" of the internet newsgroups was resented by almost everyone because the overall quality of the posts slid downward practically overnight. The sudden onslought of newsgroup newbies overwhelmed the old protocols, and the oldtimers couldn't quite teach the newcomers quick enough. Over time, many of the most vital and interesting groups simply died in the noise. As Creditnet grows, I hope something similar doesn't occur on this board. It's still my belief that newcomers should take a couple of months to digest the material and culture before switching to "advice" mode. Doc
Re: Cant we all just get along? Okay, okay, I have to open up my big mouth...again (I apologize to those who are tired of reading this, but I feel this is a good discussion, even though it does not revolve around credit). First thing first, there are cliques and there is a hierarchy on this board. But, life (offline) is the same way. Think about it if you're the new guy or girl at work do you walk in barking orders? Hardly. How about high school or college? Everyone remember being a freshmen? Eek. Online works the same way, try any message board on the Internet and you will find a hierarchy of the older original members, the regular members, those who have been there awhile, but only post every now and then, and then the newbies. We all go through it and we have all been there. And over time we all move up. Our names become known and our advice and views are more accepted (or at least tolerated). As a newbie (think of it as a rookie stance) you have to tread lightly, until you build trust. If you come in here (or anywhere in life) with feathers flying you're going to get slammed, especially if you start taking on the long time members. (It is kind of like the lightweight boxer taking on the heavyweight Champion.) Is this fair? Probably not. Is this typical on the Net and in life? Hell, yeah. I am not the best at psychoanalogy (if there is even such a word), but hopefully somewhere in my message I made a point. Dani
Re: Cant we all just get along? Doc-- I understand what you are saying however one of the things that I believe you miss is that just because I may have posted on this particular forum for not even a month does not mean that I have not lurked here for far much longer. Or that I have not posted underneath a different screen-name etc etc. As for AOL--- I have never used AOL previous to actually becoming an employee of the AOL-TimeWarner empire. I actually use several aol email addresses online in order to filter some of the spam that still keeps coming. The only time I ever use my professional email address or my home address has been on professional affiliation list-servs and when I recruited on job boards etc etc. My first ISP was not even an ISP. It was a dial up connection provided through a partnership through my local technical college and our school system for students and teachers studying technical IT trades.
PsychDoc, I appreciate your forthrightness in explaining that it was indeed you that I had emailed in a conciliatory manner with very gratifying results. I have nothing to hide and my main reason not to name people who privately email is respect for their privacy. I agree wholeheartedly with you about the paradigm shift and I am hoping as one of the shifters who suffer the "slings and arrows" others will fall in behind me. There are new members that can bring alot of experience to this board. Just because one is not an expert in dealing with OCs,CAs and CRAs does not mean they do not have an expertise in other consumer rights areas. My area of expertise is bk...not as a person that has filed bk (which I have btw) but as a legal professional that knows Chapter 11 USC pretty much by heart. I have prepared schedules for clients at leat 1,000 times, have prepared amendments, motions and even stood in line waiting for the cranky clerk to time and date stamp petitions when time was of the essence. I have also been in the bk courtroom when motions have been won and when motions have been lost. So given this exposure I feel I can best help a poster when they are in the throes of whether to file a bk or not. As for answering general questions for the board on bk I think if pbm read my posts he/she would see I have posted beaucoup of general information on bk and also on the Bk Reform Act. This information has garnered more private emails than any of the 3-4 requests I made to privately email me. So I will continue to post my extensive experience in bk and will not specifically state to anyone to private email me...but if this is the TOS than it should apply to ALL members and not just single out me. LKH, I apologize for saying your posts have not been informative...as Psychdoc said...I was having a "bad hair day" so please accept my apology. In closing I will say that I have "taken" very little from this board and have tried to give back tenfold. To discourage a member who has only been around for a couple of months from contributing is decenting at best and defeating at worst. I only hope that the newcomers read p-doc's post on the creditnet paradigm and understand that a paradigm is never written in stone so if you have some knowledge or experience please share it as that is what makes for a good forum. clc
Re: Cant we all just get along? I have said before and maintain, in my humblest of sassy opinions, and they are humble and only mine, the strength of this message board and forum is the volume of membership and contributions, near 4,000 at last check, with THE most active and varied responses available on the web. This thread isn't about newbies feeling slighted or left out or illusionary cliques based on membership in some elitist inner circle -- it's a fantasy, dare I say a lie outright. Those making those claims haven't read the contributions of the members, especially, YES ESPECIALLY, the older members of this board. Their advice isn't based on length of membership or number of posts and there's no magic number that grants you some special status, some members are just respected for their intelligent, thought provoking and wise contributions -- period, the end, I say, and the respect doesn't have a damn thing to do with length of membership! Should anyone need proof of this assertion, do some searching for heaven's sake! You really aren't getting the full benefit of the board and are missing some of the best advice if you don't. Searching is only a tool though, and one search leads to another and another and another, that's how you find the good advice, and there's no shortcut. The older postings are invaluable for their history, insights and wisdom -- and, you know what, a lot of those older members aren't here anymore, giving advice or suggestions or direction to anyone, old and new alike -- their aging status exists only in this database and I've not noticed that it's gotten anyone any more than I have received in my short time here. Sorry to break this to you holding this opinion, but I'm pretty sure that all members of this board, regardless of status, all click on their mouse to gain access just like I do. Instead of whining and attempting to discredit the truly valuable members here, which includes those that know something and are willing to share as well as all the newbies willing to ask questions and seek direction, and all of those falling somewhere in between, either appreciate this board for what it is, what it offers and most importantly, what makes it different from all the other credit related message boards -- that one person doesn't have a monopoly on thinking here, it's not my way or no way or do what I say because I said so; it's not send me an email! If you prefer a message board where one person gives the advice and the others nod along, well empower your mouse and go there, click, there's plenty of them freely available. I believe this board to be the most compassionate, patient and understanding with questions, old and new alike -- a search will confirm that to be true as well. There's no elitist clique here or some magical inner circle, there's only respect that has been earned through homework, research and willingness to share. There's online relationships that have formed through sharing -- sorry, but both take time to develop, in ANY grouping of people, online or off, you can't walk in any door and demand the world to stop or the red carpet to be rolled out just because you clicked on a mouse and filled out an online membership form. The world doesn't owe you a thing because you were born and this board and it's contributers don't owe you a response because you logged in. I hereby declare myself a perpetual newbie and say thank you to those intelligent members, especially the older ones whose previous postings speak for themselves, no matter the number of posts, for being passionate enough to remain and contribute -- post on! Sassy And yes, it IS important and isn't a matter of just getting along.
