Hi Folks, I fired off a Val letter to a CA on 2/6/03. No response as of today 3/10/03. In fact we had 4 phonecalls total this month (presumed collection although I can't prove it as they just identified who they were). The last was from a supervisor asking exactly what the dispute was about?! These bozo's keep getting the answering machine or my wife and she's a little intimidated. Wish they got me. However, the last call, my wife reiterated that we sent them a validation request in writing for the debt and have not rec'd a response (and we were done talking until rec'd). Ok enough recap. Just requesting opinions on how to proceed. Do I send a second Val letter with the Wollman enclosed? Can I stop beating around the bush and just send an estoppel in another week? Combine the two? Should I fire off a Val to the OC now as they are the ones still reporting the TL? I may have stagnated the CA as no calls have been rec'd in a week an a half. FYI - the original situation: My wife and I supposedly made a Citibank purchase at Home Depot for $ 35 dollars. We never rec'd any bills and a year later we are getting calls from a CA requesting $ 445 . . .They got us by the b@lls as we are currently refinancing. Thanks so much for assistance. BB, Butch, Jlynn, et al.
Whenever one gives us the right info., ie. starting amount, ($35) ending amount, ($445) and the time frame involved we can perform a quick calculation to determine the "internal interest rate". To begin with $35, and 12 months later end up with $445, this is an IIR of 1171.43% (97.62% Monthly). It's not that they who have you by the b@lls it's the other way around. Your contract will indicate what interest rate they can charge you, but only up to what your state allows. In Ohio the max is 18%, (1.5% monthly). I can assure you they have broken the law quite eloquently if you're sure this is the $35 bill you mentioned. Are you sure this is the $35 bill, and do you have a collection letter for $445? When are you refinancing? ???
Excellent and very outstanding post, Butch. Given the idea that you are at least somewhat obviously trying to espouse here it seems to me that you are suggesting a TILA approach or am I assuming something incorrectly here? Doing the math isn't all that tough with computers or even small calculators. That's not the point. If you are suggesting a TILA approach then I respectfully submit that that may not work with credit card companies because it has already been tried and the court case I saw ruled that the credit card companies cannot (or would not) be faulted for failure to strictly comply with TILA on overlimit fees and such because their record of compliance in all other matters has been generally spotless. Those were the exact words of the ruling. And having specifically leaving out mention of any other types of businesses may very well have left the door open for similiar suits against other types of entities. There is also the argument that the ruling of one judge does not make or break a law. Some other judge may rule entirely differently and in fact may already have done so. Or an appeal may have already overturned that ruling. I don't know what to think, yea or nay on Butch's thoughts but I certainly hope he is on to something concrete that can be used. If so, I think he has a deadly weapon in the works. Let us proceed.
I would imagine that most of the $410 is late fees. A $29 monthly late fee over the course of a year equals $348. 348 + 35 = 383 + interest would be close to the amount in question.
LKH, you're exactly right. I said the same thing. However, as someone else pointed out to me, in the fine print of a credit card app, there is always a late fee that can be charged. However, I still have not rec'd validation. I truly don't know how supposed debt was incurred. (And that's how I put it in the letter.) Broker says that he should have answer this week about the mortgage. So, back to how to proceed?
I cannot help clarify your problem. I was asking questions of Butch in order to learn myself so I don't have any answers, only questions which like you I hope to get answers for. Sorry about that.
Sorry guy's, been swamped at work. http://www.ftc.gov/os/2002/06/fdcpaar2002.htm Demanding a larger payment than is permitted by law: The FDCPA prohibits debt collectors from (1) misrepresenting the amount that a consumer owes on a debt (10) and (2) collecting any amount unless it is "expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law." (11) In 2001, the Commission received 3,297 complaints about third-party collectors falsely representing the character, amount or status of a debt, and 375 complaints about such collectors collecting unauthorized interest, fees or expenses. § 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1962e] Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section: (2) The false representation of -- (A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or § 808. Unfair practices [15 USC 1692f] Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section: (1) The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law. I didn't realize charging a late fee of $29 a month could be charged on a charged off account. I thought once that happens they must revert to the provisions for defaulted account, which don't provide for late fees. ??? Now I'm confused. LOL
Def. I would be wanting a detailed itemized accounting of every penny. I know you need fast resolution tho, Foolsmate. I'm trying to help ya figure out an angle here to get the job done. Tell ya what. If you decide you'll have to pay it in order to move ahead with your refi., do it like this: http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...ead.php?s=&threadid=39764&highlight=postdated Failing this violation you'll have to come back around and use the inaccurate reporting argument via FCRA. Been rackin my brain. I just hate to see stuff like this pop up on you guy's with a 1 week deadline.
Seems to me that what fees can be legally added is going to depend on the terms of the contract. In otherwords if the contract provides for it they can do it. So if the debtor does not have a contract he has no way to know whether they can do it or not. And even if he does still have a copy of the contract he either signed or agreed to he would either have to be an attorney or go hire one to tell him what the contract said they could or could not do. So the net effect under most contracts is that they are usually on legal sized paper and filled from top to bottom with 6 point type which is the smallest that can legally be used in a contract. So in my opinion that section of the law may as well not exist as far as the average person is concerned.
Ask the mortgage company to put the 445 into an escrow account pending litigation. you are not required to pay a debt that you do not owe simply because you're in process of getting a mortgage. Putting the money into the closing atty's escrow account will protect the mortgage company and still not make you pay a debt that's not yours. And you can let the collection company know they're holding up a mortgage and you'll hold them liable for full damages of the mortgage (and you really can) if they keep this from going through. Have you now disputed the charge with the original creditor (as soon as you learned of it) and sent an affidavit of fraud (or error)... make sure to have a papertrail via certified rr letters??? you'll have an obligation to let the offending parties know they're in error as soon as you find out about this account. If just learned of it now, then your first chance to let them know the amount is an issue is now.. but make certain you have proof you did this (letter cert rr) I'd fax and mail cert rr a demand letter to the collection company and also let them know the amount will dramatically go up if they hold up/ or cost you increased interest on your mortgage... 1k fdcpa violations (do it per call) and 1k fcra (not marking the account in dispute if they haven't)... also demand a full removal of the account and all inquiries (they poison your file) FYI: get a tape recorder and tape the calls from the ca. Say something like : "Ok, it's March 10, 2003, and you've received this request a month ago.. right?" Yes "and you've sent me nothing in writing but you're still calling me about this debt... right" yes... "and so you're still trying to collect this debt now" Yes... Get them to admit the date and that the purpose of the call it to collect on the debt You can always subpeona your phone records and show the calls received Nice fdcpa proof. also, pull your credit reports. they should have the account listed as "in dispute" if not, it's a fdcpa and fcra violation. Put the items in dispute with all affected credit bureaus (in writing cert rr) that way you can also fax demand letters to the legal departments of the bureaus letting them know you'll also hold them liable for this error... but to do so, you'll need to have proof you disputed the tradeline directly with the cra... but pull your copy of your credit reports RIGHT NOW so you have proof there's no "in dispute" notation. also, have your mortgage broker pull it and keep it. That's real proof of the fdcpa and fcra violation (the broker seeing it has a lot of weight) FYI: rates are expected to drop again 1/4 point Tuesday so waiting a bit to lock in a rate may help you
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce Another theory I'm contemplating: Seems a CA frequently violates the above statutes which is why many of them refuse to provide proper validation. If they did, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by providing proof that they did in fact violate IN WRITING. lol In other words, to the precise extent they are reluctant to provide validation, it is to that extent they probably violated the above statutes.
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce BTW: depending on which state you live in... you may have stricter state laws than the fcra and fdcpa. texas has a law that when no validation is provided within 30 days, then it's a a dead account (if I remember correctly)... so check your state laws... they're normally better than federal ones!
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce Ok, what about this everyone? It seems like we accomplished part 1 of a two part goal w/ the validation letter to the CA. If 2 general goals of validation are to 1) stop harrassment from CA and 2) Ultimately Deletion of TL, I've probably accomplished #1. So lets forget about the CA not validating for a moment. With the goal of deletion, should I now send a not mine dispute to the CRA along w/ a crrr to the Credit Card OC? If you don't remember, the OC are the ones reporting the TL, but after 3 different conversations with them, they indicated this account is completely closed, charged-off and not even in the computer anymore.....You must deal with the CA, blah, blah, blah. Incidentally, the mortgage has been pending for 2 weeks, but the broker says the TL may not be a problem.
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce Update # 2. Well. Looks like mortgage is going through. Closing on Tuesday if all goes well. Quite pleased about that. Still unclear on my next course of action for deletion though . . .
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce Man. No one has any other opinions on this? I hate to bump my own sshtuff here . . .
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce So you want to just forget about the argueably #1 easiest and fastest method of getting the deletion and then bump the thread asking everyone for the hardest way to get the job done? Is that why you bumped it?
Re: Re: No Validation from CA, How to proce Please explain. They (CA) are not reporting the TL. What can they do for me at this point, BB? Why would they give a rat's @ss whether the OC deletes for me or not. Not being a wise guy. I really don't understand.
