Long time reader/lurker, first time poster. I recently received a collection attempt. In one of the letters from the CA was a statement that the OC agreed to a settlement with another party to pay a portion of the debt. The other party paid their portion and now they are coming after me for the rest. 1) I received no notice of any agreement only a collection attempt. 2) The first attempt at collections from me was for the FULL amount. 3) I have asked for validation, They replied with documents containing 3rd party name. Not mine. 4) I was only notified of the 3rd party after asking for validation. I have no arrangement/relation to 3rd party. 5) There is NO sign of this collection on my CR. 6) Collection is assigned. The reason why I ask about noviation is because of the following paragraph that is commonly posted and it seems to be an analogy for my situation. My questions: 1) Does the statement below apply to me? 2) Should I just ignore since it is not on CR? 3) Should is send a modified Estoppel? 4) What do you recommend? â??The third used is "accord and satisfaction" which means the debt has been satisfied in full. The analogy is if you owed your neighbor $100 and a friend paid the debt for you and your neighbor accepted $75 in satisfaction of the debt, neither your friend nor your neighbor can sue you for the $25 because they accepted another amount in lieu of the original debt. It can also be called a "novation." This also happens because of an assignment. If a debt is assigned to a third party collector, it is no longer legally enforceable because the creditor has waived his standing or rights to collect. The same applies to the third party collector. No one can put himself in harms way (incur a debt knowingly and voluntarily) and then expect to be awarded damages for his losses.â? --creditnet Thank You, mlr
In what form did you receive a collection attempt? Why is the CA attempting to collect from you? What is the origin of the "debt", and why does it involve you? I would not just let matters sit. They have sent you something in response to your request for validation, and if it contains nothing indicating a connection to you, I would at least reply to them that their response was not not adequate since it included nothing obligating you in any way. Maybe they have you confused with someone else, but still don't just let them first damage your credit before you reply. Make them appear to be the idiots they are if they do it anyway.
In what form did you receive a collection attempt? -Collection letter from law firm. Why is the CA attempting to collect from you? -Original creditor assigned them this debt of which i may of had an account with, I have not received any documentation proving this. What is the origin of the "debt", and why does it involve you? -the ca is claming that a car that i rented was driven by someone else and caused an accident. The validation they sent back was the following: -police report with the 3rd parties name, the other person involved in the accident and both vehicles information. -invoice from a collision repair shop with totals for the other car. -invoice from a different rental car company for the person who was struck. None of these documents have my name or signature. The 3rd party (who was in the accident) agreed to pay half of the totals above. They are coming after me for the rest.
Does the police report show the license number of the car you allegedly rented? Were you renting that car at the time the accident occurred, and is there a rental contract with your signature for rental of that car with that license? Do you know the 3rd party, and did you let them drive the above car?
Does the police report show the license number of the car you allegedly rented? -I don't know exactly if it is or not. But I assume it is the same license plate #. There has not been any documentation shown to me that matches my name to a license plate. Were you renting that car at the time the accident occurred, and is there a rental contract with your signature for rental of that car with that license? -The CA has not provided any rental contract to me at all with my name or signature. Do you know the 3rd party, and did you let them drive the above car? -I sort of know the 3rd party; it is not a case of someone stealing the car. It is a friend of a friend who is the 3rd party. What do you think? I think they are fishing for more money, but I want to make sure my bases are covered. Does the CA have to supply the original contract from the original creditor? Thanks for your help.
1*the ca is claming that a car that i rented was driven by someone else and caused an accident. 2*It is a friend of a friend who is the 3rd party. 3*Does the CA have to supply the original contract from the original creditor? mlrtime ================= 1*Read this thread about a similar case http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=412621#post412621 2*Did you let this person drive the car? 3*Yes. ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
1*Read this thread about a similar case -This case seems similar but I don't think it is, there is no insurance company involved here. Collection amount is ~1k. 2*Did you let this person drive the car? sort of, it wasn't stolen. I let a friend drive the car, he let someone else drive it. He took full responsibility as noted by the friend. His insurance was given at the scene. My name is not on any documents sent to me. Since they are not providing the original contract should I just keep demanding validation? The other party paid 1/2 already and they are coming after me for the rest, is this subrogation? Or is it collection from a debt twice ie novation? Have the committed violations against the FDCPA? thank you for your replies...
OK- Let me try to help. You rented a car. You signed the rental agreement. You allowed someone else to drive the car, without authorization from the rental company. That person, then allowed a third party to drive the rented car, and that third party had an ( at fault)accident that caused damages to the rented car and ( another vehicle?) Some amount of some of the damages were paid by someone's insurance, or themselves personally. You are objecting to being held responsible for ALL of the damages. Most likely, all the insurance companies involved paid what they had to and are exercising their rights of recourse against you. You signed the rental contract, you are ultimately responsible for the damages that resulted from your breach of the rental agreement. IF you reported this to YOUR insurance company, you MAY be covered for some or all of the claim. Novation is a method whereby a party can transfer their claim to another to facilitate recovery.It is usually found when an insurance company has a standard recourse agreement in their policy. Here is a COMPLETE description of novation: If they sue you, and get a judgment, in MOST States an unpaid judgment from a motor vehicle accident claim can be grounds for license suspension. NOVATION - Novation is a substitution of a new for an old debt. The old debt is extinguished by the new one contracted in its stead; a novation may be made in three different ways which form three distinct kinds of novations. The first takes place without the intervention of any new person, where a debtor contracts a new engagement with his creditor, in consideration of being liberated from the former. This kind has no appropriate name and is called a novation generally. The second is that which takes place by the intervention of a new debtor, where another person becomes a debtor instead of a former debtor, and is accepted by the creditor, who thereupon discharges the first debtor. The person thus rendering himself debtor for another, who is in consequence discharged, is called expromissor; and this kind of novation is caned expromissio. The third kind of novation takes place by the intervention of a new creditor where a debtor, for the purpose of being discharged from his original creditor, by order of that creditor, contracts some obligation in favor of a new creditor. There is also a particular kind of novation called a delegation. It is a settled principle of the common law, that a mere agreement to substitute any other thing in lieu of the original obligation is void unless actually carried into execution and accepted as satisfaction. No action can be maintained upon the new agreement, nor can the agreement be pleaded as a bar to the original demand. But where an agreement is entered into by deed, that deed gives, in itself, a substantive cause of action and the giving such deed may be sufficient accord and satisfaction for a simple contract debt. The general rule seems to be that if one indebted to another by simple contract, give his creditor a promissory note, drawn by himself for the same sum, without any new consideration, the new note shall not be deemed a satisfaction of the original debt unless so intended and accepted by the creditor. But if he transfer the note he cannot sue on the original contract as long as the note is out of his possession. NOVATION AGREEMENT - A legal instrument executed by (a) the contractor (transferor), (b) the successor in interest (transferee), and (c) the by which, among other things, the transferor guarantees performance of the contract, the transferee assumes all obligations under the contract, and the purchaser recognizes the transfer of the contract and related assets.
Thanks for the input, You are on track on most of the points. They are only trying to collect this item: 1) Damage to the other car and other related items. Now the party that was involved in the accident that was driving the rental car had insurance, and according to the CA paid half of this debt. They are not trying to collect on damages to the actual rental car. How am I responsible for the other car? I understand that if there is damage to the rental car, and they provide a contract with my signature showing that then I will pay. Also, don't they need to show all invoice items showing the amount of the debt? If they cut it in half cause someone paid half, they need to provide that as well? They are providing only the invoice on the other car hit, and a police report showing the other person driving the rental car. Also, how can I have a suspended license from a unpaid judgment when I haven't even gone to court yet? Aren't you getting ahead of yourself yet? I understand that the topic of this post isn't related anymore; maybe I should start a new topic. I thought once a CA tried to collect on a debt they couldn't go after others trying to fulfill the same debt. Thanks
Re: Re: novation question Also, how can I have a suspended license from a unpaid judgment when I haven't even gone to court yet? Aren't you getting ahead of yourself yet? =============== Good ? ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- >
When you signed the rental agreeent, the rental car company asked to see proof of YOUR insurance. This covers LIABILITY, which means YOU are liable for damages (or injury) to another person or their property, caused by YOU while driving that car. Did you report this to your insurance company? You may consider yourself fortunate that apparently the person or people in the other car were not seriously injured. There is, as far as I can see, no "double" billing. If an insurance company paid on behalf of the people who were damaged by your "friend of a friend", or on behalf of THAT "friend of a friend" from his/her insurance, they have the right to come after you under the recourse rules in the policy. I mentioned the possibility of loss of drivers license, as the other advice here dealt with "validation" and FDCPA "violations" to let you know that you need a lawyer to help you resolve this, not advice on cleaning your credit report. You do not, in my opinion, want to treat this as a "credit repair" matter, because IF you get sued, the reprecussions MAY be a lot more drastic than a damaged credit rating.
Sorry, I don't understand, there is no inusrance company involved here. It is a CA attempting to collect a debt that they were assigned from the rental car agency. No where it mentions insurance. My CR hasn't been in touched by this 3 yr old account. That, with the fact that they are not sending me any documents with my name on it tell me that they are fishing. This is a Credit issue, all the letters they send me have the regular "this is a debt collection" statement clearly noted on the letters. How do I know I'm responsible for this debt? Should I just take their word for it? Please help me understand, Thanks
THREE YEARS OLD !!!! Why didn't you say so ?? The time for recovery on a claim is 2 years or less in most States. Send them the SOL letter from my website, if they are on your report send the follow up letter to the CRA/ If you need the appropriate statute and do not wish to post your State, you can e-mail me.
Sorry about not mentioning the SOL. I thought I had done my homework and looked up the SOL for the appropriate state to be 7 years. I sent you an email, please let me know here if you don't recevie it. I will update my progress here for all who are interested. ( I hate it when people don't update.) Thanks-
