Re: ok...let's get a debate started I'm sure many of you have read this one too. I post it here for those who haven't. Author: DebtCollector01 Date: 6/19/2002 10:22 am EDT I work as an Unsecured Charged Off Credit Card Debt Collector. We do not have "shout outs" when we get a payment or praise of any kind. Not even from our Manager. As a matter of fact, our Manager has told us on numerous occassions that we are getting "X" amount of dollars to "do our jobs" and that is compensation enough and our bonus checks are our own pats on the back. There are 8 collectors on our team. We are responsible for collecting against a goal of $16k per month. Most of the paper is from an old charged off portfolio my company purchased several years ago. The newest paper is 4 years old. Most of it is in a SOL (out of statute) que and half of our accounts have been beaten on and called on average of 100 times without ever getting a payment on them. I am not a hard-core collector. I think of myself as a negotiator, a "softcore" collector, and my Manager has a problem with it. He says if the debtor doesn't want to pay me NOW that I should "burn" the account. I say that is absurd since I am going to have to call that same debtor again next week and he's more likely NOT to pay me or even speak with me if I am a jerk with him now. I tell my boss that I have my own style -- that I give the debtor the "benefit of the doubt". I believe in the old Dale Carneige ways of allowing the debtor to save face and give them an "out". I know most of them are liars and procrastinators, but I live by this motto: "DIPLOMACY - The art of letting someone have $$$ YOUR $$$ way". My Manager gets mad and tells me that he's been in the business for over 10 years and if the debtor didn't pay me then, he's not going to pay me now or ever. I have proven to him time and time again that I do get these same debtors to pay me and not only do they pay me, they also write letters to my Manager THANKING ME for HELPING them with a payment arrangement and PRAISING ME for RESPECTING them and ENCOURAGING them to get back on the road to financial recovery. I have only been in this business a short while (20 months)and have made and/or exceeded my monthly goals 16 out of 20 months. The four months that I didn't hit my goal, I finished the months out between 85% and 97% of my goal. Some people I tell this situation to tell me that I am doing well yet my Manager tells me that my way of collecting is "wrong" and that I can do better and make more money "his" way. I have tried "his" way of burning accounts and it doesn't work for me. As a matter of fact, I feel sick to my stomach every time I treat someone with less respect than I would expect someone to treat me with. Could it be that I am in the wrong business? HELP ME I'M DROWNING!
Re: ok...let's get a debate started What incentive does the credit industry give a person to pay overdue bills?, I mean in a perfect world we would all be morally obligated to pay what we owe. But when it comes to your credit it's either pay what you owe and have bad credit for 7 yrs...or don't pay what you owe and have crappy credit for 7 yrs. I don't get it? if the collection agencies are so hot to make money then why not just delete the thing once it's paid...and I don't know if I'm going for this "if we did that then the integrity of the credit reporting system would be comprimised" I don't know too many debt collectors concerned about integrity..they want MONEY!. And if that was such a big issue how come they don't take the same steps to insure what is being reported on your CR is correct in the first place?
Re: ok...let's get a debate started If it was only about paying the debt, then we would get all the deletes we want and more once we paid up. Unfortunately, most of these collectors have ENORMOUS egos tied up in this and it becomes more of a control issue than anything else. While in training to become a deputy sheriff a number of years ago, I had the opportunity to observe "seasoned" deputies interact with the inmate population. Sadly, too many of them "mixed it up" (their words) with the inmates just because they could. I, on the other hand, never felt this "need". I guess that's why I changed direction and could never be a deputy sheriff or debt collector. "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong" (Dennis Miller)
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Hay wait a minute here : Robbery is robbery be it legal or illegal ~ Penalize the customer. What a Twisted Notion! This is the fallacy of corporate America. They have forgotten that they owe their very existence to the customer. They have forgotten about customer service and appreciataion and replaced it with screw the customer and if they don't pay penalize Em. There is absolutely no place in a business customer relationship for any type of punishment . Lets reserve punishment for those who are truly deserving of it-the criminal element.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Wowee, this sure did turn into a debate. I knew when I posted that this woman's post would spark a fire. Here's my .02 cents: People who pay their bills and debts should be applauded! Those who don't should also be applauded because they realized what was more important: Living. But both of these people are in the same boat. Regardless if you pay your bills or not, we are still a victim of a hopeless credit system that perpetually keeps us in the rat race. Many other posters have touched on the fact that you are screwed if you pay your debt or don't pay your debt. So, why should we pay? So we can feel better about ourselves as people? I don't think so. If the credit card companies and lenders did some kind of "credit education" before they gave you the card, so many more people wouldn't have this kind of credit. What it comes from is a lack of credit education. Until we start educating on credit, we will always have both of the people: those who pay and those who don't. What reallly got me about her post was not the fact that she paid her bills or didn't pay her bills, but the fact that she was so self ritgeous (sp?) while doing so and then became a debt collector because she felt she could help? IF SHE REALLY WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE, SHE SHOULD'VE WENT INTO CREDIT EDUCATION. PERIOD. But she didn't, instead she chooses to incessantly call people for a debt that is past SOL, purchashed for pennies on the dollar and give people anxiety. She needs to get off her butt, quit her job, and try to use her energy educate, rather than humiliate.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Most of my contact with credit collectors have not been of the VERY friendly type. The majority usually call and say something like you have 24 hours to send us several thousand dollars or else! I'm a bee, I only answer to people offering me honey. After the validation/dispute process begins and after the original creditor has written off my debt via their IRS tax return, they begin to offer me honey to settle the debt and take the notation off my report. But I thought only a few months ago, before they wrote it off their tax return - I was the big bad bear who had to respond within 24 hours with hundreds or thousands of dollars in hand or else? Yes we all should pay our bills on time - all the time. But sometimes we fall on hard times. They play hard with us when we are DOWN - we have the right to play hard with them when we come into the light of credit repair rights, etc. The cop who gives me a speeding ticket can sometimes be very abusive - I probably should pay the ticket plus the increase in my insurance rates. But I have the right to challenge the ticket in court. If the cop does not show up for trial - the judge declares that I'm innocent. Thus is our fight.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Yes, we all should pay our bills on time - all the time. No, WE SHOULD NOT WHEN THEY JACK THE TIME AND THROW EVERY HURDLE IN FRONT OF YOU THEY CAN TO PREVENT YOU FROM MEETING THE DEADLINE. The cop who gives me a speeding ticket can sometimes be very abusive - I probably should pay the ticket plus the increase in my insurance rates. NO U SHOULDN'T AS THIS IS A BIG SCAM BETWEEN THE COPS AND INSURERS TO RAISE REVENUE FOR THE COURTS AND PADDED PREMIUMS FOR INSURERS! DON'T BELIEVE ME ASK THE N.M.A .
Re: ok...let's get a debate started There is nothing moral about paying debts, there is nothing immoral about not paying them.Moraity and immorality are terms that are meaningless. The so called "rags to riches" collection agent example could have been arrested for child abuse and child endangerment for his (probably fake) tale of dragging her kids on dumpster diving expeditions. She and her (probably fake) roomies were breaking zoning and health codes in their "group" living. There are laws in our society that we should try to obey, if you want to call that "moral" that's ok, but to pick and choose a life style and call one that is legal and responsible "immoral" because debts were not paid is pure hypocrisy.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started texan, Are you getting flooded out yet? North of SA we've had 10 inches. That is one of the CA's main weapons: consumer ignorance and deception. Charlie
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Many good points all around. I agree with you: 1) There is nothing moral about paying debts. 2) There is nothing immoral about not paying them. But why did you leave out the other two possibilities that are also true? 3) There is nothing immoral about paying debts. 4) There is nothing moral about not paying them. It seems to me that all four are true. The fact that you only spotlighted the first two tells me that, at some unconscious level, you really do buy into the ideas that the credit industry would like us all to believe. Otherwise you wouldn't object in the way that you did without leaving out #3 and #4. I truly believe that you will live longer if you can bring yourself to understand the points I'm trying to make here. Doc
Re: ok...let's get a debate started I frequently engage my fingers to the keyboard before my brain is in gear, however, in this case I did not wish to get started about what I REALLY consider obscenely immoral about credit and debt.Let me give you my SHORT list. 1- A political and economic system that encourages debt to produce sales for multinational companies that exploit 3rd world citizens ,encourages child labor and environmental polution. 2- A domestic economic policy that glorifies multi-millionaire tax evasion and corporate theft, but won't provide basic health care to it's citizens. 3- A judicial system that works to insure that wealthy business lawbreakers(like collection agencies) can trample on the righs of low and moderate income citizens and drive them further down the economic scale. 4- A political system where the citibank's and MBNA'S of the world can buy the legislation they want to contiue their obscene and IMMORAL profits. I would go on, but my fingers are wearing down.I say, if you owe a debt, and are past SOL, pay the $$ to a worthwhile charity and screw the ca's AND the cra's. That is what I call MORAL.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Let me add to that list, WhyChat 5. A credit system that charges higher interest rates to the poor than the wealthy. 6. A tax system that burdens the middle class. 7. A health system that takes care of the wealthy and very poor but penalizes the working stiff who has no insurance. 8. A credit system that discriminates against the poor and minorities so they have a hard time buying into the necessities of life like homes and cars (in many places cars are not luxury items). 9. A legal system that allows a Ken Lay to sit on the $225MM+ he stole from the Enron employees (no federal CA system is calling him from 8am to 9 pm). 10. A corporate system which enriches the top executives 5,000,000x what the lowest employee earns...even when the company is losing money. Psychdoc....your morality paradigms re:credit use is interesting but I doubt I would lengthen my already lengthy life pondering them. In a system that WhyChat has so eloquently stated that is weighted towards those that got and weighted against those who ain't got is already out of the running in any morality play I would write. IMHO there are alot more weighty morality issues than credit use and/or abuse... clc
Re: ok...let's get a debate started how MORAL is it for some companies to intentionally hold credit card payments from posting to your account even though they were recieved in time so that they can charge late fees.....I think morality should stay out of this,as none of us are in any position to judge someone's circumstances.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Wow, *zoinks* (yes, I took my son to see Scooby Doo), your answers were far better than my questions, lol... Doc
Re: ok...let's get a debate started I was really, really trying to stay out of this debate, but I can't help it. After reading numerous posts on this topic I am concerned about whether some people have thought about their future. I am not going to put my foot in my mouth and speak of the prior debate, but what greatly concerns me is how many of us are living above our means, without thinking into next week, next year, 20+ years from now. I have read on here about the large amounts of credit card debt many of us carry, but we don't have health insurance, we don't have retirement stashed away, and we don't even have an emergency fund. Why not? Many mention that you put your families first, if you don't have the above...how do you do it? I am not trying to be judgemental, really I am not. But if you don't have basic security for your family - you are not putting your family first. Who do you think is going to take care of you when you retire...the government? LOL Many of us are probably thinking I will start tomorrow, or when I have more money...if you don't start now - it isn't going to happen. Stepping off my soapbox now. Dani PS This topic is completely irrelevant to what the debate concerned, but I couldn't help it.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Dani- Seeing as I don't have health insurance I'll answer a few of your questions. The number one reason I don't carry health insurance (other than my employer not offering it) is why dish out say $600-800 a month (we'll even low ball it to $500 a month, that's $6000 a year. Hospitals take payment plans and it's even interest free!!!! When I was a baby, my parents were very conscious about my future. Now it's my turn to save for my kids. Long story short, not everyone wants or needs to dish out their entire life on a credit chat board. Just because you know a few things about someone's finances (thru only what they tell you) doesn't mean they are way over their head. None of us know everything about everyone on this board. I totally understand your post and where you are coming from, but I just keep telling myself It's a chat board, I only hear what they are willing to tell me.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Kellie, You really need to adjust you're thinking about hospital billing. They will work with you on small amounts. But, you have a really serious illiness and run up a $10K+ bill and they'll turn loose the hounds. If there is any way on earth you can get ihealth insurance, you should.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Keepmine- I appreciate your concern, however I have had large hospital bills, $7K+ and there has never been a problem with payment plans. I ALWAYS contact the hospital the day after I leave and ask them what the minimum payment per month is acceptable, I also make them send me something in writing saying that as long as the payments are made by xx/xx monthly in the amoun t of $xx, they will not send my account to collections. I have not had a problem as of yet. As long as I am doing my part, they will do theirs. All they want is their money. Besides my payments for medical are tax deductable.
