Re: ok...let's get a debate started The story of "The Dumpster Diving Ex-Debtor" comes right out of the ACCA (American Credit Collectors Association) training manual. Look it up under "Chapter 12 - The Art of the Soft Sell". I personally liked "Chapter 3 - Pay Now or Die Scum!". It had a heartwarming story of a collector getting a promise to pay and a tele-check from a terminal AIDS patient. It brought tears to my eyes that brave collector, fighting the odds, allowing the patient to die happy in the knowledge he'd done the right thing before passing on. JohnM
Re: ok...let's get a debate started I once offered a collection agency my services as a graphic designer in exchange for forgiveness of an old debt. Their Website seriously needed an overhaul as I remember and my thoughts were we could both benefit from such an arrangement. Did they take my offer??? Nope. Not a chance in hell they said.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started I can't quote but I will respond. I DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO PAYOFF MY DEBTS. I WAS UNEMPLOYED (NO JOB - NO INCOME). SO I HAD A CHOICE EAT, PAY CAR PAYMENTS OR PAY CREDIT CARDS CARDS AND HAVE A REPO. WHAT DO YOU THINK I CHOSE? THE LITTLE MONEY I HAVE IN MY SAVINGS, IS TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN. NOT PAYING OUTSTANDING, CHARGED-OFF DEBTS FROM OVER 5 YEARS AGO!!!!! ****I DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO PAYOFF THEIR DEBTS.**** I AM VERY HAPPY FOR YOU. It's sad that when you express your opinion on this board, you get attacked. Also, it's sad that people would think that I have a problem with them because they can pay their outstanding, charged-off debts. Good for you, I wish I could but I can't!! I now know how NOT to get into this situation again. But, in reality most people are 1 paycheck away from being homeless or destitute. That's why I try to save what I can afford to and live within my means. And believe me, I don't make alot of money, unlike some people on this board who choose to brag about it.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Am I missing something? Who is attacking whom about paying their debts or not paying their debts? Are posts disappearing on me? betacredit, I have to respectfully disagree with your last paragraph. As long as I have posted on this board I have never heard (or read) anyone brag about the money they made, the home they live in, or the car they drive. Dani
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Ones first long term goal should be to establish a sizeble side fund which will work wonders for your financial flexibility. One important aspect of doing this is to protect the fund with the proper insurance package both while accumulating and once established. Once suffecient funds have accumulated you can have it pay insurance premiums drictly from the fund instead of using current income
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Like I said, I am entitled to my opinion and that is the way I feel - attacked. I was not saying that I begrudge people who are able and choose to payoff their debts. If you are able and choose to pay off your outstanding, charged off debts than that is fine. I don't want you to explain how you were able to do so. I don't really care whether you sold a house, cashed in stocks or whatever methods he/she used to do so. That is what I mean by bragging. I don't even have the means to do so. I had a ton of credit cards before that I did not use wisely with no savings. I know what got me in that situation so I will not make the same mistakes again. It's okay, if everyone disagrees with me. I am still entitled to expressing my opinion without being attacked and that is the way I feel.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started I know the feeling it's happened to me enough around here. I have never attacked anyone here - that's not to say that i haven't defend my self strongly when attacked. I can't understand why folks can't reply properly
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Wait wait wait... Maybe I'm missing something because I'm blocking lbrown59, lol, so I can't see all the posts... But betacredit, I hope you weren't referring to me with respect to feeling attacked. There was an invitation to debate these tough issues here, and that's the spirit I felt when interacting with others in this thread. If you felt personally attacked by me, please accept what is a profoundly sincere apology. Of course you have seen me sing your praises dozens of times on this board (and other boards as well) vis-a-vis our work on the nutcase series. I harbor absolutely no ill will toward you personally whatsoever. I hope the sincerity comes through, because I'm definitely concerned about your feelings period. If I wasn't the one who attacked you, then I'm relieved (selfishly relieved), but I'm still not happy of course that you feel attacked by anyone frankly. Doc
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Let me add my formula that I recommend to people who wish to imprve their credit, AND wish to "feel good" about their paying their debts.(This assumes they are past SOL and have a bunch of old debts from ca's) 1 -Send cease and desists to all ca's with a warning that you will file suit if they continue OR resell the debt,as it will be considered a continued collection effort, 2- Instead of taking another job to pay off the old debts, volunteer those hours at an after school program,senior citizens center or humane society. 3- Instead of taking extra $$ to pay off those debts, invest in a "rainy day" fund,retirement account, life insurance and health insurance. 4- Instead of sending letters, filing lawsuits and wasting precious time to "clean your credit report" use that time and those hours in finding ways to save on your budget,repair instead of replace, mend instead of throw out and meditate instead of being entertained. 5- If you are beyond the SOL, the MOST you have to wait for a clean report is 4 years. If you can't wait 4 years to "regain credit" then, IMO, you will likely fritter away all your other opportunities for self empowerment and a good future.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Well it looks like PsychDoc is now comtemplating kneeling down and kissing somebody else's gold wedding ring for forgiveness....lol (a very humorous remark psychdoc made to me when I "profoundly apologized" to him). clc
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Reading this thread has been quite interesting. I'm so pleased to see that most everyone posting is aware of just how unforgiving and harsh the credit system is to those who fall down for one reason or another. I think this board is real cool most of the time, and always find the posts to be informative. The collection agents and banks who ruthlessly try to put profit above humanity must hate this site with a passion....which means, of course, that this site is just what they need! It's all about defending your right to have shelter and food...not about how many billions Citibank or Enron stole from hard working people this year.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started I commend all of you who have paid/are paying off your charge offs, ect. Unfortunately, I can not afford to just yet. I do feel a moral obligation to pay them, but I also feel a more important moral obligation to pay the utility bill, buy food-shoes- and pay for medical insurance for my kids. I had one collector tell me I was probably saving up a lot of money since I wasn't paying my debts and what did I plan to do with all the money. I wish I could say that I was becoming rich by not paying my debts, but I'm not. At the present time, I am just content not worrying about my electricity or phone being cut off or that my family could end up homeless. Until I found this board I was paying on my charge-offs and was constantly worrying so much that I felt that I was going insane! I was becoming physically and mentally ill due to the worrying. At one point, my child ended up with pneumonia because I did not have insurance and could not afford to take him to the doctor. I then realized that I was NOT going to let my family suffer just to keep the collectors happy, especially when I found out that they were violating my rights by calling me late at night and on Sundays and using threating language(thanks to this board). I honestly do feel guilty sometimes for not paying my debts, but then I remember that I can now afford insurance for myself and my children and decent food to eat and remembering that makes me forget the guilt.
Re: ok...let's get a debate started Anyone checked out this discussion board lately? Christine Baker from the Bayhouse forum wrote a thread where she talks about her famous "why should we pay and still get our credit ruined" speech. You should see the responses she got to that one! Also, our "dumpster diving collector" tells a heartwarming story about how all her debtors just LOVE her and in fact call her asking when their next payments are due. She tells of how one of her clients actually forgot to call as usual and after leaving a message was alerted by family members he had passed away. But by golly, he still wanted to get that debt paid. Where do these people come up with this stuff. ACK!
Re: ok...let's get a debate started My thoughts: 1- "To Pay or not to Pay" can not be linked to "Moral vs Immoral". It's an apple vs orange thing, is an orange more moral than an apple? My credit was terrible in 1995 to 1997. I was maybe a 350 FICO then , now in 2002 I have 800's across the board. Does this make me a better person? No, I'll still the same old rotten bastard only now I'm a rotten bastard with good credit <g>. 2- Paying on debt out of SOL should be done only if it makes YOU feel better. By law if the SOL has expiered you DO NOT owe it. That is the law. Don't listen to a CA tell you anything else. You have no legal obligation to pay and the continued collection efforts are illegal in and of themselves. Now were is the moral high ground in that case, not with a CA violating the law. 3- Stop the victim mentality I see time and time again on this board. I lost my job, my mother stole my checkbook, my son took my money for crack, my dog ate the bill, the evil CC raised my interest rate, someone else caused this not me. BULLSHIT! No more EXCUSES, admit it to your self if to no one else. We chose to incur debt in the good times, our situations change and something happens, we can't pay the debt. It's our action and lack of planning for the rainy day that caused it. That does not make you a "bad" person, it just makes you a person in debt. 4- Now that we don't have anyone else to blame, DEAL with it. Make your own plan based on your situation and stick to it. The few in this board that make moral judgement such as "get a part time job", "you need to pay your debt now", etc. are clueless, Place them on ignore. True happiness comes from within by doing what YOU feel is right. Do the best you can and sleep well knowing that you gave it your best JohnM
Re: ok...let's get a debate started lb59 It was the collection agency discussion board mentioned a few days ago. http://www.collectionindustry.com/templates/content/discussion/discussion.cfm
Re: ok...let's get a debate started John I agree with your stance on victim mentality. Enough said. Referring to point 2 concerning the issue of the SOL. A person can still owe the debt (this doesn't change), and the collection agency or OC can still contact you (unless the individual sends a cease and desist letter). The CA and/or OC can also sue...they just won't win. Dani
