1/12/04 (approx.) Received letter from CA (Debt Recovery Solutions). Mini-Miranda was on it "Attempt to Collect a Debt, but no "Unless you contact us in writing within 30 days to dispute this debt, etc.". This was the First letter I received from them, but I'm sure they'll try to claim they mailed one previously. Send Validation Request on 1/21/04, they signed on 1/26/04. I did state in this letter that this was the first letter I have received on this matter. Disputed on 1/30/04 with EX and it was verified. 3/26/04 send second Validation Request, signed for on 3/29/04 4/21/04 Received letter from them dated 4/16/04: Re: Household Bank Account No.: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX Balance: $1188.59 Dear Shorty, We are responding to your recent request for verification of the obligation referenced above. Documentation supporting the current balance due is enclosed. This statement identifies relevant billing information. We trust that this information responds to your question. Please remit payment immediately or call our customer service department at 1-800-XXX-XXXX if further information is required. (Letter did have Mini Miranda at botom.) Enclosed was one statement for billing cycle with a closing date of 7/10/00, with a Previous Balance of 587.99 and a New Balance $658.00. The OC has reported Date Opened: 1/00, Date of Last Activity: 1/00 This is all that was included. No contract, itemization of accounting or anything else. A Little Background: The address listed for the account is an old address of mine, which I have had deleted from CRA's. While at this address, I had a rommate for about 6 months but asked her to move out once I discovered she was a major liar. (If she said it was raining, I went to the window to check.) I moved to my current address in 10/02. Ironically, she had just been evicted from here, and for the first few months the police (Worthless Check Charge), a payday advance place (she skipped out), and a rental place (Never returned furniture) came by several times looking for her. I believe she applied for this card in my name (Living with me, she had access to ALL my personal Info, Mailbox to intercept statements, etc.), but I didn't know about it until I pulled CR in 11/03. Haven't filed police report because I didn't know, and my little "country" police probably won't let me because it happend 4 yrs ago. Any suggestions on next step or on wording of next letter, because I'm sure they think they have validated this account???
-What's "Estoppel" ? -RECEIPT is NOT required for the validation notice. All they have to claim is that they have a mailing system in place, and they mailed the notice of validation rights. -So unless you can PROVE the INITIAL letter was returned to them as undeliverable, you are out of the validation period and they do not have to send you validation for this account. -As I see it, this is NOT a validation issue. IF the account is fraudulent, A PROPERLY WORDED DISPUTE TO THE REPORTING AGENCY is what is needed. -At this point, you have no recourse against the collection agency for "violations" of federal law. -In cases of fraud/ID theft, a "reasonable investigation" is what any actionable violations hinges on. -I would suggest forgetting about the collection agency / original crditor for now, and concentrate on the reporting agency. MAKE THEM AWARE OF EXACTLY what is wrong with the listing. A "not mine" dispute IS NOT ENOUGH PS- Dont send an "Estoppel Letter" LOL
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. I wasn't relly looking for any violations, because I can't find any attorneys down here that handle consumer cases (except BK). I live in a relatively small town with the "good old boy" network very firmly in place; for example on 4/16, there was an article in the local paper about a county commission member punching out a window of an ambulance, yet he wasn't charged with anything, because the cops at the scene knew him and he was "emotionally distressed" , but he called and offered to pay for the window, and "it's a done deal".But I digress..lol I was thinking maybe I should send a letter to the CA along the lines of ..... Your offices have only provided me with partial validation, and the information you have provided is insufficient evidence that this alleged debt is mine. The statement your provided me with shows a balance of $658.00, yet your cover letter shows a balance of $1,188.59. Furthermore, (The Original Creditor on this alleged account) has reported "Date Opened: 1/00" and "Date of Last Activity: 1/00" for this alleged account. The statement you provided me shows "Closing date: 7/10/00", which leaves 6 months unaccounted for. Please provide me with every statement for this alleged account. Additionally, please provide me with a copy of a contract bearing MY signature, which expressly authorizes these additional charges to this alleged account. But then again, they have had since 1/26 to provide anything and have only provided one piece of paper, so I see your thinking. How does this sound for letter to cra: During the time period this alleged account was opened, I had a roomate whom I believe has applied for this account in my name. I have requested validation from this CA to no avail..... etc. etc. ??? Should I include copies of the letters to the CA? Thanks Shorty
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. -The content of the "letter to the CA" is great. Cept it should be sent to the reporting agency -The collection agency can just ignore you, the reporting agency cant
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. Thanks! I Just got a denial and they pulled EX, so I'm waiting on my hard copy to come in. I'm afraid that they won't investigate again though. We'll see. Shorty
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. << 1*Mini-Miranda was on it "Attempt to Collect a Debt, but no "Unless you contact us in writing within 30 days to dispute this debt, etc.". This was the First letter I received from them 2*Disputed on 1/30/04 with EX and it was verified. A 3*Disputed on 1/30/04 with EX and it was verified. B 4*We trust that this information responds to your question. Please remit payment. 5*The OC has reported Date Opened: 1/00, Date of Last Activity: 1/00 6*bigmon said if it's not full validation the next step is Estoppel letter. Shorty-red **************************************************************** 1*In other words it wasn't complete! 2*1000 for verifing without validating another 1000 if they didn't mark in dispute. 3*1000 for verifing without validating another 1000 if they didn't mark in dispute. 4*1000 for attempting to collect with out validating. 5*Looks like sol expired on Jan 2004. 6*don't send anything until30 days after ca signed GC.>> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. Hiding, If the "mini-Miranda" letter did not even include the legally required "30 day to dispute or will be assumed valid" notification, can it even be considered a valid first notification and does any 30 day period ever pass? As you are probably aware, there IS case law that other added wording undermining the clarity of the meaning of the legally required wording to the "least sophisticated consumer" makes the whole letter out of compliance. Here we have no mention of 30 days at all. Has the CA waived their right to "assume validity" since they have not notified the consumer of same?
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. Here we have no mention of 30 days at all. Has the CA waived their right to "assume validity" since they have not notified the consumer of same? ontrack ============= Good ? ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <> ><- <>- ><- <> ~~~ ><- <>- ><- <>
Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#809 § 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g] (a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing -- (1) the amount of the debt; (2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed; (3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; (4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and (5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor. Sassy
Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. -The "30 day" notice IS ONLY required in the INITIAL COMMUNICATION with the consumer, or 5 days after the intial communication. -Here is the problem. The debt collector ONLY NEEDS TO SHOW THE NOTICE WAS SENT, NOT RECEIVED.- Mahon. -Because the poster said he had moved, and there was an "old address", it is QUITE possible THIS WAS NOT THE INITIAL COMMUNICATION with the poster. In fact, the poster concedes the collection agency will probably CLAIM it was not the initial communication. -Unfortunately, it is THE CONSUMER'S BURDEN to show the letter was NOT SENT. -Personally, the letter was probably never even sent, but IT WOULD BE NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to prove.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. hiding, how does a Ca prove they sent validation to the consumer ??????? what standard do they follow ???
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. did you not read Mahon?? lol All they have to do is: 1. have an established mailing system in place (ordinary course of business) 2. rely on the system 3. NOT receive the mail back as "undeliverable" THATS IT!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. ok so in court its my word against the CA if they actually sent me the validation then huh? they dont need proof to back up their claims but the consumer does is that what you are essentially saying here??
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. YUP! YOU HAVE TO PROVE THEY DID NOT SEND IT read Mahon..its right on point http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/getcase/9th/case/9717298v2&exact=1 "The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act requires only that a Validation of Debt Notice be sent to a debtor, not that the notice be received. The evidence established, without a genu- ine dispute of any material fact, that the Credit Bureau sent the required Notice to the Mahons. Under the common law Mailbox Rule, the Notice was presumed received shortly after it was mailed."
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. I think they need to prove they did not send it, I would have to prove it If I sent them a validation request in the 30 days if they claim they never recieved it and I claim they failed to comply and respond to it. its my word against theres then theres the proof which is in the puddin lol
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only Received Partial Validation.. lol..it is your right to disagree with a federal court. not wise however LOL
