I know this may offend some in this forum and I apologize in advance but for others it may light a fire under your butt to wake up to the reality of what the globalists are trying to do to this great country. You magnificent people in this forum allowed me to regain my credit rating 700+ FICO's and I am grateful to everyone of you for your help. But as a former worker in customer service (labor and management) I can tell you that the outsourcing of customer service by corporations is causing stuff like what I am posting below. Please ,as sincere as you all are about credit and your money, I pray that everyone freedom loving American look into some of this info and fight these global companies before there is no country left(www.infowars.com) Now to the financial issue that this about: My interaction with Chase over a bs late charge: Date: 09-15-2004 22:43:20 To: Chase Credit Card Support Subject: Re: Fees/Finance Charges Message: Hello thank you for taking the time to respond. Again I must reitireate that the due date of the bill was not what it had been for the previous 12 months. It was 3 days prior due to our AMERICAN holiday of Labor Day. (that is a day we we honor the hard working men and women of AMERICA) Now in America, we consider someone who has an impeccable payment history with only one late due to the COMPANIES' decision to change the standard due date, the fault of the company, and a credit for late payment would be the customer service friendly course of action. If this charge is not removed from the account within 48 hours, I will be closing this account. I look forward for you to select the most prudent course of action. Thanks -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- Hello , We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Our records indicate that this late payment fee was billed to your account because the minimum payment was not received by the due date. Your bill generated on 08/11/2004 with a payment due date of 09/03/2004. Your payment was received on 09/08/2004. As a result, we are unable to remove the late fee from your account. If you have any further questions, please reply using the Secure Message Center. Thank you, Charulata Shah E-mail Customer Service Representative Original Message Follows: ------------------------- Hello You wrote: "Your bill generated on 08/11/2004 with a payment due date of 09/03/2004. Your payment was received on 09/13/2004." The payment was made on Sept 6th, which is the normal historical due date. For you to state that the payment was received on September 13th is factually incorrect and essentially proves you did not review this matter in a customer friendly manner. Therefore I am demanding that this unjust charge be removed from my account or I will be forced to end the relationship with Chase by closing my account. I will be looking forward to your cooperation in this matter. As a result, we are unable to remove the late fee from your account.
I see two issues here, neither related to the other. One I wouldn't generally respond to; the other, I could not, as an American, fail to respond to. First, I see an issue of your minimum payment being late because Chase apparently changed your due date. Assuming this is true, and assuming that your payments have otherwise been timely, I certainly agree that Chase should, as a gesture of goodwill, if nothing else, waive the late fee. Other cc companies have done the same for me for less valid reasons, MBNA to mention one. The second issue is hardly as benign. You refer repeatedly to an American holiday that benefits American workers, and that this is how we do business in America. Your tone, at least as I read it, is snide and condescending. I ask you, where the hell do you get off assuming that the individual responding to you is not American? Mind you, I work for a company that engages in some outsourcing, so I am certainly familiar with both the practice and the controversy of global outsourcing. However, the person to whom you responded could just as easily have been a third-generation immigrant working in Tulsa, OK. Think back to when your forefathers came to this country - their names were not what the long-standing natives of this country considered familiar. Yet you, I assume, consider yourself an American. Too bad; your bigotry gives the rest of us a bad name. Deal with the real issue: crappy customer service. Deal with the bigger issue of global outsourcing at the local or national government level, if you'd like. But please don't make snide comments to individual employees, whoever or wherever you think they might be. They didn't take your job, an American company gave it to them. Direct your venom where it belongs.
Update and response to previous post. Yes it is two issues. I have had a perfect payment history so that is not an issue. Yes a goodwill credit would be the standard remedy in this case. and for an American worker that would have been the case for years but only until recently. Only until we started outsourcing to other countries. Then things changed. I worked in the business but I resigned my hard earned management position because I won't screw over the American consumer, but it is a whole lot easier for a foreign entity to carry out less than customer friendly policies. And a bunch of smart bankers have figured that one out. And you thought it was just economics. Listen I know this is a credit forum and I have benefitted greatly from the information, but just like any informational forum there are others out there that inform on the decline of this great country and why it is happening. One reason is outsourcing. And if you don't think I don't know the effects of outsourcing, just come visit me in southwestern pennsylvania and let me show you the rust belt. Yep sending our steel jobs to Korea and other places 20 years ago really helped American didn't it. NOT! It is not any different this time except it is new to the rest of America. We have been there done that and have NEVER fully recovered our economic base. This is an appeal to anyone out there that cares about the survival as the United States as a great nation. (http://www.radioliberty.com/kjos1.htm) or any link (http://www.propagandamatrix.com/links.html) Spend a rainy night and do the research. Again I profusely apologize for being a off topic, but deep down I had an awakening about the current state of affairs in this country, and I found that many are trying to warn us before its too late. So please get away from the footbal game or NASCAR just for a few hours and figure out who your state represenative is and what he/she stands for. Finally the text of my final email to Chase customer service in New Delhi.Date: 09-16-2004 02:37:56 To: Chase Credit Card Support Subject: Re: Fees/Finance Charges Message: Hello Thank you for your response. You should maybe request have your team leader put in a request for you to learn remedial english, for nowhere in my email did I request a bill due date change. You have left me no alternative in a matter of $35 but to pursue the closing of this acct. I will be in contact with Chase in New York to handle this matter. Just one more thing, you have underestimated the American Spirit. You think its that crap they show you on TV and some american newspapers. well guess what? Nothing could be further from the truth. Our leadership may have sold us out, but the true American can't be bought unlike some of you all. (I bet you love those long shifts , short handle times and email and phone call quotas, sick to your stomach from the pressure and not sleeping right all for that 160,000rupees per year. No really worth it is it?") We don't want anyone from any other country handling our financial affairs and certainly this experience will be used to document why. So have a good day. One more thing...Condescending? No. Is it $35 dollars? No. It is a principle that has been lost in the plethera of BS promulgated by those that sould see the destruction of this country as a victory. And I say to them, "This is the United States of America and a true AMERICAN will defend it against "all enemies, foreign and domestic"
Been to Southwestern PA and you're right. I wouldn't be on this board if it weren't for outsourcing: my household lost half a mil in income over the last 3-1/2 years. This is one reason why I'm not too upset about paying First Premier Bank's heinous fees: at least I get to talk to a genuine South Dakotan when I call. (Hey, I'm trying to bring it around to topic)
The due date was Sept. 3, your payment was processed on Sept. 13, generating a late payment fee. You were not more than 30 days late paying this bill so it will not show up on your CR...
\ There is no getting through to you, is there. No where in any response to you was this person unprofessional. You, on the other hand, are very unprofessional in how you responded to the customer service rep. You were late on your payment, if you had read the bill, you'd have known this. That has very little to do with being an American and them being an outsourced customer service center. Take it up with the head of Chase, it's not the first time that due date changes have happened. It has little if anything to do with outsourcing.
I'm not even going to get into the whole outsourcing argument with you; I don't disagree with your concerns on the impact to our economy, yet there are other sides to the matter. What continues to disgust me is the stream of bigotry you continue to spew in the name of patriotism. The communication you copied into your post FROM Chase was free of any spelling or grammar errors whatsoever. Granted, most email responders, whether foreign or domestic, use prebuilt templates. Your post, however, was filled with grammar and punctuation errors. Get yourself a course in remedial English, bub; it sounds as though you have some time on your hands. I'll say it one more time - the person on the other end of the phone or the email message didn't take your job - it was given to them by American government and American management. It is not easier for them to enforce strict policies; in fact, thanks to bigots like you, their job is even harder than it would be for an American counterpart. They didn't do anything to deserve your tone or your poison. Frankly, any customer of ours who treats one of our representatives with that sort of unwarranted response would be canceled from our service, and good riddance. I'm by no means saying that global outsourcing is a good thing, but at least acknowledge that the individual with whom you're interacting isn't the source of all your troubles.
I can't believe what I'm reading here. MCS7, it's NOT their fault over in India. Your condescending tone makes YOU look bad. You don't like the fact that you're dealing with outsourced customer service? Don't support it. Close your account. There, that was easy, huh? And on Election Day, vote - THAT is true patriotism! This is a credit forum. Let's keep it there!
I agree. And as someone else pointed out earlier, you don't even know that this is an outsourced person. It could be someone living near you. A name doesn't indicate where a person lives or works. There are ways to deal with outsourcing, but shooting the messenger isn't one of them.
Re: Re: Patriotism, globalism,bad cust serv He said he sent the e-mail to New Delhi. Assuming that is correct, it clearly isn't someone living near anyone in the US.
Re: Re: Patriotism, globalism,bad cust serv This thread is STILL bothering me! Regarding outsourcing, the practice is nothing new. Think about it. It all started with the settling of this country by the early colonists, who "outsourced themselves" from King George. They came here, founded a new country (actually STOLE the country from the Native Americans), and built a prolific slave trade (which can be considered a derivative, or by-product, of outsourcing - "insourcing" if you will - by STEALING the labor from Africa). The slave trade was outlawed. We then industrialized. Prevailed in two World Wars. Felt bad for the Japanese after nuking them TWICE unecessarily. Rebuilt their factories. Had them start making little parts for us (another form of outsourcing). They got smart and started making little electronic parts. And then bigger parts. And then cars. And then they started selling those cars HERE! And we bought them. And then we STOPPED buying American cars, because Japanese cars were better. An interesting by-product was that they didn't need our steel anymore! And those little electronic parts they were making became TV sets and stereos with CD players. And again, we lost another industry. And all along, we did it to OURSELVES. So you see, outsourcing is nothing new. As Americans, we're ALL guilty of contributing to the problem. I drive a German car. I'm guilty. I have a Sony TV and DVD player. Guilty again! I use Microsoft software - they use customer service centers in India. Guilty yet again! Globalization is inevitable. But as I mentioned earlier, I plan on exercising my TRUE patriotism and deep love for this country on Election Day!
Being rude and indulging in your inner bigot for a late charge?? Check yourself, your nationalism is in the way of your humanity. Your diatribe was better suited for a manager or big, fat banker here in the USA and most of your post better suited for another forum. I bleed red, white and blue and thank God everyday my daddy raised me to know right from wrong and how to treat people. Get off your soapbox and go DO something about it rather than run your mouth and belittle someone.
The remarks from today were interesting. I appreciate the criticism. It makes me all the more apt to tell the story. When I see the level of deception as indicated by some of your responses I wonder if you will ever snap out of the coma you are in. You accuse me if bigotry and a host of other negatives. You focus on the insignificant such as punctuation in a sentence.. However you miss the BIGGER picture. The United States will not survive as a great nation if we continue to send our work overseas. The standard of living will continue to fall for the middle and lower class. All because you capitualate to those leaders (mostly your corporate leaders) for that few bucks you make. And just look at creditcards in general. The elite are making a fortune on your apathy...just do the interest math alone. And you see who is getting screwed. How does it feel? Use that computer in front of you to discover that there are thousands of people out there trying to wake you up from that greedy, self-centered, money loving, WWE, monster truck driving, porno indulging, Jerry Springer coma you been in. And realize that we are losing our Great Nation But its a free country, for now, and if you want a new world order, one world government, microchip implanted in your body (ADSX is the stock symbol and it is being done in other countries right now), and if you want governmental tyranny, if you want to give up your freedom for a little security (see Ben Franklin's remarks), and you want to live in a police state by all means enjoy. A great American once said: Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it. Patrick Henry I know that most of you are irritated and maybe even amused, but I believe in this Great country. And to watch it sink further into the point of no return, motivates me to try and wake those in the spheres that I have traveled in. This forum being one of them. I implore you to take just a few hours some weekend and educate yourselves on what is really happening. Click any link on this page (http://www.propagandamatrix.com/links.html) and just read. Read where we are headed. If nothing else just google search for the FTAA. FREE TRADE AREA OF THE AMERICAS, and find out if ratified how it could affect the people of the United States. I am wayover on my soapbox allotment. I can only try for so many have died in pursuit of defending the freedom of this great nation, and the apathy we are showing as a people will only cause us to lose it. I leave you with the last response from Chase. It should remove any doubt of a global conspiracy. Date: 09-16-2004 05:37:19 From: Chase Credit Card Support Subject: Re: Fees/Finance Charges Message: Hello Michael, I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. As Chase is a global provider of financial services, it sometimes becomes necessary to do business in countries outside of the United States. Please be assured that we will in no way compromise the security of your account or the quality of service that we provide. If you have any further questions, please reply using the Secure Message Center. Thank you, The onus is now on you, the reader, to educate yourselves. And if you choose to do nothing, then when you job goes overseas don't you dare come back to this forum and beg for info to bail your butt out, for your were given the facts and you ,chose to laugh , scoff, challenge, nitpick, sidestep and otherwise make excuses instead of trying to change it. End Rant
It was your original comment about having to deal with a CSR with "remedial English" that started this whole thing. Talk about insignificant? You chose to attack the LEAST significant element in the whole scheme of things! This thread started with YOUR missing the "BIGGER picture". Read my last post again about how the whole outsourcing thing started in the first place - especially the part about how we are ALL to blame! I don't know quite how to respond to this one. I like to think that this board is populated by just the opposite of what you describe. "...greedy, self-centered, money loving, WWE, monster truck driving, porno indulging, Jerry Springer coma..."? Not here, anyway! I agree with many of your points. And I appreciate your passion. And I respect your right to state your views (still one of our most important - if not THE most important - freedoms!). This board, by itself, is not going to change the world. We are, however, learning to take credit and financial matters into our own hands. We're learning how the law is interpreted, and we're using that to our advantage. We're sending huge messages to creditors, CAs and CRAs. And we ARE beginning to affect change! Fortunately, we're still armed with extermely powerful weapons - weapons of choice. You don't need to continue a business relationship with Chase - that is YOUR CHOICE. Send them a message! And our MOST powerful weapon is our vote. Again, read my last post - the comment at the end about Election Day!!!
And how long have people been predicting the downfall of our great country? I don't want to say you're crying wolf, but we've survived before, we'll survive again. Our business model will change and we'll find some other work to do here. We still lead the world. Yes, I could read that web site and get excited. But I try to get a balanced view. There are other sides to this. Do more balanced reading, form your opinions and VOTE. We've survived other crises, we'll survive this one. Why? Because this country, above all others, values individual freedom. You mentioned having chip implanted in the head in other countries. I lived in Europe in the 1970s. Even then, in what we think of as a free country, you had to carry ID at all times. If you didn't have it an a policeman stopped you (which he could do for no reason) and you didn't have your papers, you were taken into custody until it was straightened out. That was over 30 years ago. I heard people say that it would happen here and be the end of our country. But even after 9/11, we haven't passed a national ID card act. This country is different from and better than any other.
Re: Re: Patriotism, globalism,bad cust serv Not that Ashcroft hasn't been salivating at the thought...
Re: Re: Patriotism, globalism,bad cust serv Well said Hedwig, I just had to add that a credit forum is not the place to voice political opinions and expect to really accomplish anything. Use that energy and time where you can actually accomplish something. Send to your congressman or any other area of government that can truly make a difference and by all means VOTE! I'm proud of this country and the fact that we can speak openly which a lot of countries do not enjoy. Keep a focus on what you can contribute in a positive manner and not what you can find fault with! We all know were not perfect but were aloud to say so in this country! As a fourth generation military family I just had to add my 2 cents!
