Pay and try delete by verification?

I have two charged off accounts on my CRs. One is from Penneys and the other is from Mervyn's.

They are both for under $500.00. I realize that trying to negotiate a settlement for deletion of negs is unlikely with such small amounts so I was thinking I should pay them off and then try to get them deleted by requesting verification over and over.

Once you pay them off, you have no bargaining power left at all and they will simply tell you
where to get off the train since the ride is over. Don't pay them a crying dime under any circumstances. Waste of time and money with no gain to be had. What you need is a vigorous attack against them so that they voluntarily delet rather than fight about it. If your approach is strong and forceful, you can win easily. Spamming them to death does work, but why play those dumb games when you go after them and make them do your bidding? Don't make any sense.

Since the account will have been paid off by then I figure they will get fed up eventually and delete. Not good thinking at all.

Once deleted, they will have little incentive to re-insert since account is closed.
More than likely your constant bothering them will make them even more vindictive.

Opinions?

Yours is a poor plan indeed.
Suggestions?
Learn how to do credit repair and do it right.

 

So Bill, what would you do to get the negatives off of the credit report. I've seen from your previous posts that you don't ever advicate paying what is owed to creditors. What "plan" do you have? Other than waiting for the seven years to pass before they come off - or IS that your plan?

 

I'm not sure what kind of luck others have had with trying to get the credit agencies to verify again and again. I can tell you that I have tried it on one account over the course of about 3 1/2 years. I get a response back from the credit agency saying it has already been verified and they will not re-verify. I tried this maybe once a year!!!!! Still no-go.

 

No. Never negotiate with a creditor or collection agency. Negotiation should never negotiate with a creditor, much less a collection agency. Student loans are the sole exception and then never with the collection agency.The sheep is never in a positon to negotiate what supper will be composed of nor who will do the eating. Only the shepherd can do that. He settles that issue either by simply shooting the wolf or sending his dogs out after the wolf.

When the wolf comes knocking on my door, he had better bring three things with him.

1. A big, big picnic lunch.
2. A bullet proof vest
3. A legal parachute

And he had best be absolutely certain that his howls and growls disturb no one.

He should also be well versed in the subtle art of tucking his tail well up between his legs while running at top speed in any possible directions.

Yes, I am well aware that such talk sounds like the babblings and mutterings of an insane person to most.

That is because most people who are in debt are so used to the constant harangues, phone calls, lawsuits, repossessions and other browbeating technuques visited upon them by their creditors and his minions that they are not willing to believe that they can actually put the shoe on the other foot and get away with it.

Everybody knows that the debtor has no option but to endure the embarrassment and misery heaped upon him by his creditors, don't they? Everyone knows that if you owe another money and do not pay in a timely fashion, you are a deadbeat and deserve what you get, don't they?

Well, things are changing and changing rapidly for those who want to believe. For those who do not want to believe, nothing is possible.

While you may not win them all, you can win such a huge portion of them that the one or two you may not be able to beat are not likely to that much of a problem.

All you have to do is to learn how to do it the right way and you can win. Do not be fooled into thinking it is easy, but anyone can do it.

 

No, I do not wait for the 7 years to pass.

And I do not attack the credit bureaus unless it is they who have made an error in reporting. Credit bureaus are not the source of the problem. One should always attack the source of the problem to cure the problem.

If one is a shepherd and his sheepdog barks loudly because he sees or smells a wolf, one does not beat the sheepdog, he , he shoots the wolf. The credit bureau is the sheepdog, not the wolf.

 

I'm not sure what kind of luck others have had with trying to get the credit agencies to verify again and again.

I have no actual figures to report on the subject, but I have read the posts of some who say that they think that the success rate with "spamming" methods is about 40%.


I can tell you that I have tried it on one account over the course of about 3 1/2 years. I get a response back from the credit agency saying it has already been verified and they will not re-verify. I tried this maybe once a year!!!!! Still no-go.

Would that not tend to indicate that one ought to try something different?

The only reports that must be deleted in that manner are bankruptcies and some governmental liens such as IRS or tax liens.

The reason that "spamming" must be used in those instances is that no collection agency ever gets involved. Those reports come from official records, not some collection agency.

 

I think it would be so nice just to get an answer, Bill, that was helpful. I suppose you are not just putting it out there because you want to protect whatever it is you sell but, honestly, wolfs and growling???

I don't want to start a war but I these kinds of responses frustrate me totally (and you should never frustrate your Nana!) LOL

I may be alone on this, I don't know. But, when people are trying to correct their credit, some are in a "credit crisis" for personal reasons, etc., it's seems to me to be unkind to throw out bizarre postings which hint at knowing exactly how to correct it but tell nothing and end with a website address to purchase a product. You know, when you are stressed there is less tolerance for silliness.

(As a note, this just occurred with me over in my thread about the troll's wife on "my next step")...

Ok, back to worrying about my house and a smooth closing now...

 

Now to respond to the thread. If I'm reading this right, you haven't attempted negotiation at all, is that right?? I think I'd sure do that before throwing in the towel! Heck, why not? I got a creditor of my husband's to agree for a measly $119 bill so that would be my first suggestion!!!

Best of luck and please keep us posted!

 

I think it would be so nice just to get an answer, Bill, that was helpful.

Nana, I think it would also be nice if people just got a simple answer and were able to put it to use without needing any help or instructions. However, it has been proven to me all too many times that people get information on this and other forums and then go out and mess it up, making mistakes because they didn't follow instructions given or because they didn't understand the instruction in the first place and then end up missing the opportunity they had to make it work for them or simply never getting the opportunity in the first place.

I suppose you are not just putting it out there because you want to protect whatever it is you sell

It is not that I want to protect whatever it is that I sell, nor do I care about the proceeds of any sale from this or any other board. The money is not all that much to be worried about in the first place. But if someone uses information from this board that I have put out and then mis-applies it and gets themselves in trouble then I am responsible for their demise. I do not want that to happen.

but, honestly, wolfs and growling???

It isn't wolfs, it's wolves. (LOL)
Anyway, what is wrong with a little humor?
That reference comes from an old saying that goes I'm so broke that when the wolf comes to my door, he'd better bring
a picnic basket."

I don't want to start a war but I these kinds of responses frustrate me totally (and you should never frustrate your Nana!) LOL

Nana, you never have to be concerned about starting any wars where I am concerned when you simply ask questions or make comments that are not stated in such a way as to be obvious attempts to insult or defame or are put-downs or attempts to flame. Just do as you have done in this instance, express your concerns or ask questions in a nice manner. I will not take offense simply because someone disagrees with me or my methods. Just be decent when you do and I will take no offense.

I may be alone on this, I don't know. But, when people are trying to correct their credit, some are in a "credit crisis" for personal reasons, etc.,

You are absolutely correct on that. I know the feeling well. I've been there and wore that dirty T-Shirt far more than I care to remember.

it's seems to me to be unkind to throw out bizarre postings which hint at knowing exactly how to correct it but tell nothing and end with a website address to purchase a product.

I am quite sure that the definition of bizarre is greatly dependent upon one's point of view. It is probably much like the term "sanity" which depends upon the norms of the society in which one lives. What's sane in one culture may be considered insane in another.

"Hints" at knowing? Well, I guess I didn't realize I was being so vague. It was not my intention to "hint" at knowing at all. And just because one visits my website does not mean that they have to purchase anything and I do not now have nor have I ever had a product to sell. All of the information to be found on the website is free.


You know, when you are stressed there isless tolerance for silliness.

When one is stressed, that is the best time in this old world for a bit of humor. Reader's Digest has a very famous saying, "Rx:Laughter, the best medicine."
Truer words were never spoken. There is always room for humor and those who never look for it never find that silver lining that exists within every cloud. Getting mad and exploding is a sure road to disasterous results.

(As a note, this just occurred with me over in my thread about the troll's wife on "my next step")...

I don't understand the above at all. Would you please elaborate a bit or isn't it important? Just curious

Have a nice day.

 

First, I profoundly apologize for my misspelling! The Horrors!

Second, I have visited your website, isn't the creditwrench sold for a price of $49.95?? I swear I read that!

And, I think we might have discovered the problem in that humor is much different than silliness in the context I meant. I think of humor as humor when it is appropriate. Silliness..well, it's just irritating when used at critical moments.

It really does appear to me to be "hinting" at the answer ("I have it, you don't" kind of thing) but holding back from sharing with the board as I said. (I state this to confirm how I am feeling re: your reply!)

Finally, as to whether someone properly uses your advice..well, we have no control over that. I would be more frightened about charging $49.95 and then having the advice not work...but nonetheless, if you feel uncomfortable giving advice, why post at all?

 

I think you've misunderstood what Bill is saying. His advice is to negotiate removal of negatives for payment. Once you have paid, you no longer have any leverage. It's not a matter of not paying at all. Add to that, if you paid some amount, it would reset the 7 year clock. So you would be in worse shape than from not paying. Now this does suck, because the creditor is obviously due his money. So I think the pay for removal aspect is a win win situation. Don't you agree?

 

First, I profoundly apologize for my misspelling! The Horrors!
----
(LOL)
*********
Second, I have visited your website, isn't the creditwrench sold for a price of $49.95?? I swear I read that!

Nana, If I've said it once, I must have said it a hundred times. Creditwrench is the name of the website, not any product you can buy and put your hands on. You want to buy the website? I didn't think so!! (LOL)
******************
And, I think we might have discovered the problem in that humor is much different than silliness in the context I meant. I think of humor as humor when it is appropriate. Silliness..well, it's just irritating when used at critical moments.

Each of us has our own sense of humor and when it is or is not appropriate. Clowns are silly too, and people pay good money to go see their silliness. Our own kids are often silly, and we get great enjoyment from that. There isn't really any way in the world to disagree with your statement, Nana. It's all in one's point of view at any given time. An example might be grown men walking into a bank wearing Dick Nixon and Roosevelt masks. It's silly until they pull out their guns, then it can turn deadly real quick. Put them at an adult birthday party and everyone might very well be rolling all over the place with gales of laughter.
************************
It really does appear to me to be "hinting" at the answer ("I have it, you don't" kind of thing) but holding back from sharing with the board as I said. (I state this to confirm how I am feeling re: your reply!)

Again, your point of view is your point of view. I have no reason to quarrel with you over your point of view. If I did so, I'd just be doing it to put you down or make fun of you or whatever. I'm not into that kind of thing just to be creating hate and discontent.
****************
Finally, as to whether someone properly uses your advice..well, we have no control over that.
Well, I happen to think that we do have control over that.
But then that's just my opinion, and I didn't argue or fight with you over yours.
************************
I would be more frightened about charging $49.95 and then having the advice not work...

That doesn't frighten me at all. The reason it doesn't is because it's far too easy to simply give them back their money if they are unhappy for any reason. It's simply good business practice to be able and willing to do that at any time.
******************
but nonetheless, if you feel uncomfortable giving advice, why post at all?

I don't feel uncomfortable about giving advice. As a matter of fact, I do so for free all the time. But the post you are complaining about was not so much about advice as it was about telling what can be done. I think that if you will but carefully examine the post we are talking about, you will see that the only advice I gave was the following.
*******************************
No. Never negotiate with a creditor or collection agency. Negotiation should never negotiate with a creditor, much less a collection agency. Student loans are the sole exception and then never with the collection agency.
*******************************
The rest was solely commentary and silliness used to illustrate a point, that the sheep is never in a position to negotiate what will be on the menu for supper.

Now then, in the highly dubious event that you could not understand the corrolary, the debtor is usually just about in the position a sheep might be if he attempted to debate or negotiate what the wolf was to have for his next meal.
In otherwords, he'd lose the argument rather quickly unless he had some outside help.

After that, I simply stated a second common saying which I have already related, and told them what happens when a bill collector (collection agency) comes looking for me. It's going to take him so long to get anywhere if he ever does that he had best be well prepared because he's not going to earn his next meal from me under any circumstances. In 71 years, there has only been one that ever has and I was only 26 years old at the time. He happend to stumble upon me as a real newbie at that time. It's never happened since. I'll just have to hope it never happens again.

Of course, there is the matter of my two houses, and they did win temporarily. That will change in just about 45 days now, and the bank is going to come up suddenly wondering just how in the hell that ever happened to them. August 2nd and the fun will start.

Have a nice one.

 

Ok...well, I tell you what..you can choose to consider how I felt about this or you can refuse to see this and consider it. I won't continue beating a dead horse here.

P.S. I hate clowns.

 

Sheesh! Now I'm a dead horse!!!
(LOL)

So you hate clowns.

Nana, thanks. You have just given me two good laughs in a row.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and let it go at that.

At least we didn't get into any silly flame wars over the issues, and that's worth a lot.

And don't get the idea that I don't appreciate your posts and comments because you put out an awful lot of them and you often have some very profound comments to make.

 

I have read all the previous posts and the thought that keeps going coming to me is can I please get a straight answer. No more hints, vague references, illusory discussion and comments on how not to repair credit. Going back to the original post by TEast, how does one go about removing an accurate derog listing. Bill, I realize you are someone with experience - I admit I am a beginner. But I am also some one who likes to save time by cutting through the bull and just getting to the point. That's why I'm here. And Bill if you don't want to share information because you want to sell your product then just say so. I respect a man who is upfront. Gracias

 

Alright, Heather, I will be "up front" with you.

It isn't the money, although obvioiusly we must all eat and pay the bills somehow.
If money were the real object, then I would just put out a book and let it go at that, and let the cards fall where they may. No one would ever get complete information and help with their problems and they would very quickly find themselves loaded with problems my book would not, could not solve for them.

It isn't about form letters either. We have all seen a few tons of those. Some were pretty fair, some were really bad. But most of them worked to at least some extent regardless of how bad or how good they might have been.

And it isn't all about the FDCPA nor all about the FCRA, but the fact that several other laws also have a bearing on what can or cannot be done in any given circumstance. For instance, there are those situations in which the Truth in Lending act can be brought into play as well. There are times when the 100 word or less statement can become a great and dirty trick to use on the credit bureaus to force them to do one's bidding.

In otherwords, it's experience and knowledge plus other qualities too numerous to mention can come into play and used effectively.

It's also a well known fact that when one is so close to the situation as the average person is, it can become a very traumatic experience and one can easily fly of the handle, become too emotionally involved to be able to take a second look at the problem and spot new avenues of attack, new possibilities. When problems abound in our lives, we often tend to get a mindset about something and can't seem to step back and re-think the situation. We just become too emotionally involved to do that effectively. Some people can and some people can't. That's why credit repair isn't for everybody. Also, time is of importance to everyone, and if you can just dump your problems into someone else's lap who will do his level best to get right back to you
and help you resolve your problems, then you have gained a lot.

That's why most of the people who ask for my help also become good friends.

Now do you understand a bit better?

If not, let me know.

 

Yes I think I do. What you are saying is that no one method works for everyone. Even if you have two people in what seems the same sitation they may get very different results using the same method. I will use myself as an example. I have a charge-off from Citibank. I don't want to wait until 2004 when it comes off my CR. Let's say I try to negotiate a settlement for deletion of negs on my CR. Just because it woked for someone else doesn't mean it will work for me. (Too many variables -different reps, amount of debt) So if that doesn't work, then you try another method and another until you find one that works. Is that it?

 

Yes I think I do. What you are saying is that no one method works for everyone. Even if
you have two people in what seems the same sitation they may get very different results
using the same method.

Well, yes and no. The only real changes in results arise in how different collection agencies and different creditors reply to the same letters. One might completely flub the dub, come up with some totally stupid and off the wall answers to the same letter, one might get it right, one might make other mistakes, one might reply in a timely fashion, one might reply in a couple of months or more and some just don't answer at all. Then there are different combinations of all of the above. One might come up with the right responses if you give them a few months to do it in, whatever. But if you know what to look for, just about all of them will make a serious blunder sooner or later. So it's not the consumer who makes the mistakes and gets different results using the same letters or tactics, it's the creditors/collectors who provide the comedy of errors.
**********************
I will use myself as an example. I have a charge-off from Citibank. I don't want to wait until 2004 when it comes off my CR. Let's say I try to negotiate a settlement for deletion of negs on my CR.
Well, there is your first mistake. Don't negotiate anything. Trying to negotiate settlements with creditors/collection agencies for something in return is likley to have just about the same results as a sheep trying to negotiate with a wolf what the wolf is going to eat for supper.
***************
Just because it woked for someone else doesn't mean it will work for me.
Quite frankly, I've never seen it work for anybody. and I have seen too many examples where the debtor paid them off believeing that they would live up to the agreement only to find out the sad truth later. Therefore, I don't think it's worth the risk of hard earned cash to even attempt it.

(Too many variables -different reps, amount of debt

So if that doesn't work, then you try another method and another until you find one that works. Is that it?

Nope. I use a specific technique for each type of circumstance. It's very cut and dried in each type of instance. I use one type of letter and technique where the debtor has not paid the bill and it's still in collection, a different type of approach when the debtor has paid in full, and still another different type of approach for other types of situations. Most of them start off being basically similiar, but can quickly branch off from there depending on what comes back or if nothing at all comes back. Timing is also extremely important. Doing certain things in a timely manner is also important.

There are a lot of variables. It's most definitely never a cut and dried situation.
The only time we take a totally different approach is if the collection agency should happen to actually abide by the rules and do everything by the book. That has never happened yet, but someday it will. Then it's time to switch horses on them and get a different angle going, and I'm just waiting for that to happen because I've got a real nasty one for them if it does.

You just have to keep at least one step ahead of them so that you become the biggest darn headache they ever had. They don't want no headaches because they have much easier fish t catch and fry.